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What is the cause of ascites?

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Posted 1/28/2011 2:21 PM (GMT -5)
Moderators:
What is the cause of ascites? This is not clear to me. I have learned it is because of liver damage...but just not sure. Please give a learning lesson.
Thanks.

Emma
Posted 1/28/2011 2:37 PM (GMT -5)
Emma, this is how I think it works. One of the moderators can straighten us both out.

Your cells need fluid and various chemicals to keep them going. When you have liver disease, the cells are less able to keep the chemical balance right. Fluids with chemicals (like sodium) do not cross over into the cells, they stay floating loose in your body cavities not absorbed. So you can be dehydrated (cells with not enough fluid and chemicals) and awash in ascites. It was explained to us that, for example, sodium doesn't cross over right, so you need a low sodium and limited liquid diet to trick the cells into using the sodium and fluid on hand to nourish the cells. Or something like that. This process is aided by the production of certain chemical protiens which are made in the liver when processing plant and meat protien in our food. Albumin is one I think. So sometimes they give supplementary albumin to make the cells work the way they are supposed to work. Then there is ammonia. Your liver and kidneys are supposed to wash those chemicals away, but a bum liver and later the kidneys don't work quite right and the ammonia gets floating around there also wth no where to go but into cells and your brain, which can cause their own havoc. Bottom line. The liver is very complicated and when it isn't working, there is heck to pay (self edited by ML).

Have I got the laymans version right?
Posted 1/28/2011 2:49 PM (GMT -5)

Emma and ML, what I've read is that ascites is the direct result of portal hypertension.  I've never read or heard of the cellular cause, but it sounds plausible.

Hugs,

Connie

Posted 1/28/2011 2:58 PM (GMT -5)
Does ascites come all at once or does it creep up?

Hubby has not had any, and therefore is not on any meds for fluid retention. We are working on decreasing salt intake. Last night he had sore feet and a tiny bit of swell over the sock line. I could still see shin bones, no swelling in feet. The swell over the sock line was no worse than I experience myself from time to time.

Just want to be sure that I am watchful for changes. Sometimes I still kick myself that I didn't press harder for him to see the doctor 6 months before he did...so I don't want to explain away or miss anything. Stakes are higher now.

Emma
Posted 1/28/2011 3:35 PM (GMT -5)

With me, it seemed to appear all at once.  My struggle with it was when I had liver cancer and my liver was really compromised.  After cancer treatment and surgery, plus the help of diuretics, everything went back to normal.  If your hubby has not had any ascites or edema to this point, it's unlikely he will have any unless he drinks again...then there's the possibility.

Emma, there's a difference between being aware and worrying yourself to death.  Please try to relax.  As long as he stays sober, his liver function will continue to improve...unlike those of us with hep C whose liver is being attacked 24/7.

Hugs,

Connie

Posted 1/28/2011 3:39 PM (GMT -5)
You're right Connie. I am working on the relaxation thing. I've been doing pretty good for the last couple of weeks. I got myself a relaxation CD. Going to give it a try this weekend.

Thanks for the reminder.

Emma
Posted 1/28/2011 6:08 PM (GMT -5)

Emma, by all means use the CD.  Also remember the breathing exercises you were taught.  Anything of this sort that reduces anxiety is a good thing.  :-)   yeah

Posted 1/28/2011 11:32 PM (GMT -5)
To All, ML is partly right about cells, in Liver patients one of the issues is albumin which keeps the fluids in the blood stream to be filtered through the liver and kidney. Portal hypertension plays an important role in the production of ascites by raising capillary hydrostatic pressure within the splanchnic bed. Also people with compromised kidneys and heart develop ascities. When they test the fluid there are certain protiens etc.. they look for. These contents change ie for cancer related ascites, heart related etc...
Connie, you fit into this as you had liver cancer and now that you are cancer free it is easier to maintain fluid retention.

Sue
Posted 1/28/2011 11:40 PM (GMT -5)
"...raising capillary hydrostatic pressure within the splanchnic bed."

Sue, can you translate that into layman's terms?  The only thing I understand is capillary.

Thanks.

Emma

Posted 1/29/2011 12:21 AM (GMT -5)
 splanchnic bed... okay that is your organs in your abdominal cavity( not the heart) ie spleen is one affected alot by this pressure cause by portal hypertension hence some of the reason for it becoming enlarged and not performing properly in its cell production, albumin being one( this needed to maintain fluid in the blood) this fluid is then sent to be filtered by the liver then sent to hydrate the kidney(part of the  splanchnic bed) all this fluid now has no where to go.... some sweats out of your liver and other areas like blood vessels, like a soaker hose for your garden..... the more the pressure the faster the water seeps from the hose.

Does this help?

Sue

Posted 1/29/2011 1:04 AM (GMT -5)
Rick, I know you southerners like it as simple as possible and always seem to use terms involving animals.....lol lol

 and why is that....... like your room is so small you cant cuss out the cat with out getting a mouth full of fur.... whats up with that.....lol...... nervous as a cat in a room full of rockin chairs.....

hehehehe Sue

Posted 1/29/2011 1:17 AM (GMT -5)
Well, that's a new term to me! They never had "splanchnic bed" in my terminology and body systems course.

Hugs,
Connie
Posted 1/29/2011 8:24 AM (GMT -5)
"some sweats out of your liver and other areas like blood vessels"

Hmm - not according to hep93 who says I was inaccurate when I said "weeps from the liver" and said I had not researched properly.

Hey ho - more hammering of me for no reason.

 

Post Edited (MrErythema) : 1/29/2011 6:27:58 AM (GMT-7)

Posted 1/29/2011 3:04 PM (GMT -5)

Mr. E, I concede you were at least partially right, though you were missing the main reason for ascites--portal hypertension.

Connie

Posted 1/29/2011 9:58 PM (GMT -5)

Rick, you are just to funny..... I so love your wit and humor. I have always been a bit of a wise %^# but you take the cake ( notice inanimate object ). I will say my yankee accent and attitude has gotten me in a pickle a few times. My oldest daughter is 17yrs in the Navy and she has been told her yankee attitude has kept her 3/10ths of a point from being a perfect sailor.....as this is the newer kinder military. She is now working with special forces and after trying to curb this attitude she was told she needed to be more abrasive... go figure. Of course she loved that cause now she has permission to be loud and in your face.... BWWAAHHAHAHA

Sue

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