Question for the Ladies...

Hi Scandic,

I am so sorry to hear that things are not going well for you yet.

It does sound like that Symbiovag is not the right medication for you. You must be allergic to some part of it. Just a guess!

I have no experience with that product, but I do have experience with home treating a vagina candida problem. Personally, I use salt baths -- starting with a pretty high concentration. Soak to provide relief to the outer areas and splash plenty in the inner areas.

Afterward apply a good organic yogurt with plenty of different organisms. Little messy, but it will relieve the irritation. You can repeat this process as often as you need to in order to get relief.

Some people recommend adding some fresh garlic to the yogurt. I haven't needed to do that, but it probably does work.

A bidet would probably make this all a bit easier!

Hope you feel better soon.

I live in Europe, I'll have to wait till Monday, call the gyno, see if I can get a short-notice appointment.

But I guess the general opinion is to go to a gyno with this and not the LLMD?

I'm worried about what it is, because if it's candida, then it's either a type that Fluconazole does not kill, or it's resistant, because i've been on oral fluconazole for three weeks now.

Yes, I am also inclined to think I am having some local allergic reaction to one of the ingredients, even though it's "natural" . It has probiotics in it, lactobacillus acidophilus, and apparantly it somehow generates hydrogen peroxide (that could be what stings I suppose).

I'm also concerned the gyno will prescribe something that may clash with the whole Lyme thing (go back and check with the LLMD I suppose?).

I was about to change gyno's, last time she saw me she took an appointment with me in the middle of a delivery and was rushed, ended up being rather hard-handed, and I didn't get all my questions answered. But I guess for now, best to go back to her as she has my file....

ugh, always in the weekend too...

My concern was that it was yeast despite being on fluconazole, the LLMD seemed to think it was more likely bacterial. Apparantly, these probiotic suppositories are supposed to help for both. Even though he has a background in gyneacology, I didn't really expect him to have a look, but rather suggest I go to my gyno...

However, reading up on it, I think it could be cytolitic vaginitis, an overgrowth of lactibacillus acidophilus, where the environment is too acid (so using this suppository made it even more acidic, leading to disaster), or simply a bad allergic reaction to one of the ingredients.

One of the things that helps CV is bicarbonate sitz baths, so I took the chance and tried it. Things are calmer, so either reducing the PH has helped, or simply stopping treatment has helped (but the bicarb certainly didn't make anything worse). Still burns, but a bit less than yesterday.

The plan is to make an appointment with the gyno (because I won't get one right away anyway), and while I wait for the appointment with her, send the LLMD an email (thus hoping for an email answer rather than an expensive telephone consultation). In any case, he better know so he doesn't prescribe it to others without testing first.

In my reading, I discovered that you can home-test for vaginal PH. If your PH level is low, it's more likely yeast, if your PH level is high, it's more likely bacteria (wish I'd known years ago...). I'm going to order one of these test kits online, can be useful to have at home regardless.

I doubt my gyno has experience with systemic yeast, or she would have connected the dots when I was in her office over a year ago, with a raging vaginal yeast infection, complaining of rapid heart at night and hair loss (I was thinking perimenopause, it was probably already systemic yeast).

However, what she can do, is do actual tests to see what's actually going on in there. I won't take any of the meds she prescribes without checking with the LLMD.

Thanks for the tea tree oil tip, I happen to have some at home!

I'm also wondering about the probiotics I'm taking - I'm not on antibiotics, but I kept taking them because of the candida. Wondering if you can get too much of a good thing, as in, can too many probiotics swing the other way so to speak and cause problems?

OH Scandic!! I'm so sorry that you are having such difficulties! Hang in there! It sounds like you have a good plan though!

I bet that once you get past this situation that your treatments for the tick-borne infections that you have will seem like a piece of cake!

Well, I just looked up cytolitic vaginitis and got quite the education! I found this article that although it's rather scientific, has a lot of good info on how to tell the difference between the different infections. Here's a link to that site:
www.ispub.com/journal/the-internet-journal-of-advanced-nursing-practice/volume-6-number-1/differentiation-of-the-vaginoses-bacterial-vaginosis-lactobacillosis-and-cytolytic-vaginosis.html

My heart goes out to you, Scandic! Hang in there!

I volunteer to grit my teeth along with you, Scandic! Gosh! I just can't imagine what you must be going through!! Hang in there, you're one tough lady!!
Gentle hugs,
Trav

Ok, went to see my gyno today. I'd call it a small disaster.

I did not expect her to know much about Lyme, but still told her I had Lyme and what meds I've been on and am on, since I thought it could be relevant to the current irritation.

When I said I was on fluconazole for systemic candida, the blank expression told me either she doesn't believe in it, or she knows nothing about it.

I told her about the Symbiovag suppositories and the awful reaction. Ok, so she had a look. Her first words were "oh, it doesn't look bad, it doesn't really look irritated".

(I was up at 3am this morning with a wet wash cloth to soothe the itching). I told her how bad it had been earlier this week and that as of Tue it calmed down a bit, but was still itching.

She said she saw no signs of yeast. So I asked if it could be cystolic vaginitis, she had clearly never heard of it and said that you can never have too many lactobacillus acidophilus bacteria.

When I asked how come I seem to feel more irritation after my periods and asked about PH levels, she just poo-pooed it.

Despite her saying there was no yeast, she still prescribed something anti-fungal. A cream & suppositories.

I recognized the name from a Nov 2010 visit and remember that it burned insanely and I had to wipe it off ASAP.

I said to her "is it wise to put something topical on sensitive skin that was ragingly red & had a bad reaction just some days ago?"

(plus, she had also just said she didn't think it was yeast, so why was she giving an anti-fungal?).

I almost burst into tears, saying I won't put anything on there that will make it sting like that again, and then she relented and prescribed 4 Sporanox tablets, clearly to "shut me up" but said I could not take them at the same time as Fluco.

Then she got hung up on the Fluco, that she thought I should stop taking it, it was not good to take it for so long and she could not see how it could possibly help against a bacteria like borrelia at all.

She also told me I should book an appointment with an infectious disease doctor at a Univ hospital in Belgium, she clearly felt I my LLMD was some quack in another country.

Like I said, I did not expect her to know anything about borrelia, but was surprised that when the irritation I have was not obviously yeast (I asked about candida glabarata and got blanked).

I asked about PH-levels and other possible reasons, and got nothing. I also have fibroids for which I have to take the pill to control the bleeding.

I asked about coming off the pill or taking something with less hormones or something to be done about the fibroids other than a hysterectomy. Nothing.

So, I'm sitting here, with 4 tablets of sporanox for a so-called non-yeast infection, you can wonder why she gave them to me then. I refused to buy the cream.

I don't know what to do. Weekend coming up, stuck again. I suppose I better press on with the fluco and skip the sporanox.

I can't check anything with the Lyme doc, it's later in the day here already and I won't be able to contact him till Monday now.

I asked the pharmacy lady, who is really nice, for another gyno, I have a name, but oming in as a new patient, it will take some time to get an appointment.

My heart is skipping. No wonder from all the stress.

Dear Scandic-

I'm sorry you are suffering :(

A few months ago, right after my first course of ABX for Lyme, I was so inflamed down there that I was near tears and could hardly stand with my legs together! Normally, I just treat myself with antifungal and deal with it but it was so bad I just couldn't stand it any longer.

I went to the GYNO and she looked and TOLD ME THE SAME THING! She said, "Oh, it doesn't look very irritated." She said she didn't see any signs of yeast or infection and DID NOT do a microscope swab, as I had hoped she would.

I couldn't believe she said it was nothing. I was all swollen on the left side (strange, huh?) from front to back--at least, I felt like it was. I was burning like mad. She said there might be slight swelling and maybe a touch of pink but nothing alarming. Huh?

She said I could continue with the antifungal cream to help with irritation--and left it at that.

It finally cleared on its own after I took a few baking soda baths.

My pain was actually more on one side than the other--even inside the left hurt more than the right. So I was left wondering, could it actually be a Lyme symptom? I don't know.

Frankly, I would demand that they do a swab on a slide, and look for yeast/bacteria under the microscope. It isn't that hard for them to do. Being on ABX, it could be yeast and being on antifungal, it could be bacterial.

I hope you find relief soon. And I wish drs would try a little harder. If it "isn't yeast" then its something--don't just act like we are nuts! Because, we ladies don't just make up this stuff so we can take time out of our days to see ten different doctors and undergo the discomfort of those exams!

Well, to be honest Scandic, your hubby going to your appts. might actually add credence to your story. It's so ridiculous what we have to put up with this stuff, but you need to find a way to make these docs actually work for you. If your hubby is there backing up and adding to what you are saying to these docs, then it actually makes it more valid to them.