Very interesting info on Bart from Buhner's new book

Dr. Buhner wrote a new co-infection book on mycoplasma's and Bartonella and he says:

"Bartonella bacteria possess very low endotoxicity. This is crucial because endothelial cells have a very low tolerance for endotoxins. The lipopolysaccharide of the bacteria is at least 1,000 times less toxic than that of Salmonella bacteria. Herxheimer reactions during bartonella infection, if they exist, would seem to be occurring from something other than bartonella cellular death. For it is generally the lipopolysaccharide that is released during cell death that causes the toxic reactions known as herxing."

"...the nature of the bacteria doesn't lend credence to the herxing being from the bartonella. One thing to keep in mind however: those antibiotics you are taking? They don't just kill bartonella. They kill alot of other things as well."

I know sometimes we use the herx as a way to gauge whether or not our protocol is working for us. That is why I found this so interesting. I've had several herx reactions that I thought was from bart treatment. Looks like it may have been the Lyme after all.

For anyone with bart, his book is really, really informative. Scientific, but he tells you the bacteria's behavior, what it lives on, what exactly it is doing in your body. I'm looking forward to reading about what he suggests to get rid of it.

For the record, Buhner agrees that some antibiotics do work for bart. The problem is after use of all these antibiotics, the buggers are getting smart and becoming resistant. He thinks it should always be hit with at least two antibiotics at once, which is something we all agree on. Bartonella is a double cell wall organism. So that means it's twice as hard to kill. Also, I always questioned why Dr. Burrascano suggested no cardio for bart infections. Now I know why: it's an aerobic bacteria. Just LOVES oxygen!


I will update other interesting facts I come across if anyone is interested.

Post Edited (Shabbychic) : 6/5/2013 7:08:27 AM (GMT-6)

That's not a silly question at all

The catch 22 dilemma is, that Lyme doesn't like oxygen but appears that Bart does!

These diseases defy all rhyme and reason.(sigh)

Tickled

I read that in the book as well, and I am not sure I agree.

My daughter has bartonella, and the classic bartonella symptoms of long bone marrow pain (shins and forearms). Her herx reactions include increased marrow pain. I can't see that this is not bartonella die-off. Maybe they are just getting mad, but not dying?

Buhner has done a turn around on a couple of herbs as well, saying garlic isn't all he originally thought it to be. This is significant, because in his first book on herbal antibiotics he states that garlic and oil of oregano are the two best anti-viral, anti-bacterial remedies available, and backed his statement with several research papers. IDK, but we are not giving up on garlic or OoO, just adding his new herbs into the mixture.

Rowing Mom,
I too had a herx from you-know-where while starting treatment for my Bart infection, so I don't understand Buhner's statement on that either! I had increases like your daughter - very definitely Bart symptoms that were flaring!

I think this just proves what most of us already know - each infection reacts very uniquely in each of us requiring at least a slightly different treatment for each of us.

sure I stink to high heaven, but I feel its worth it!

and rowingmom, "not dieing, but making it mad" applies to everything in my life! lol

TOM

My impression is that Bartonella creates more problems than the Borrelia does. Of course when you have lyme and several coinfections, there is a synergistic effect. Bartonella really does a job on the immune system and the blood vessels. And yes, if you are using antimicrobials, it usually requires several.

We had Heather use garlic tablets when I discovered that it is a wide-spectrum antimicrobial. We later switched her to freeze-dried garlic which retains more of the allicin than the overly processed products do. We kept Heather on the freeze-dried garlic for 2 years after her last symptoms. It is a wide spectrum antimicrobial that I would give to anyone that is chronically ill.

There is a chance that any antimicrobial may kill at least some strains of intestinal flora. about a year ago I read an article in which a physician said that he is against indiscriminate long use of garlic if a person doesn't have an illness. I know perfectly healthy people that have taken garlic as a maintenance/preventative and it seems that they stay healthy. However logic suggests to me that that physician may be correct. I had Heather discontinue the garlic about a year ago, and it certainly has not been a detriment.

My new opinion is that it is better to not take even a "natural" antimicrobial unless there is a specific purpose for it, because of the possible harm that it may cause with the beneficial intestinal flora. I don't claim a shred of science to support my theory. Its just a theory.

Don