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Babesia or Bartonella?

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Posted 4/23/2014 2:42 PM (GMT -5)
Is it possible for a protocol to only hit particular symptoms, and "ignore" other symptoms? For example, I am treating Bartonella, and my anxiety and palpitations have improved ever since I added Bactrim months ago. I don't have air hunger, but I do get night sweats. I know the sweats are typically associated with Babesia, but I've also read it could be Bartonella. Babesia also creates anxiety, so if my anxiety came from Bartonella, then does that just mean that the Babesia left that symptom out of its package for me, but the Bartonella added it?

In addition, I've heard that Dr. Klinghardt's book claims Bactrim has an effect on Babesia. Some people say it even got rid of it for them. Is it possible that the Bactrim has been hitting both of these, but my bacteria load from the Bartonella was higher, and that is what it hit hardest?

I would love to just stay on Bactrim and add herbs later to try and squash the supposed Babesia.

The cross-over of symptoms has me confused lately.
Posted 4/24/2014 12:39 PM (GMT -5)
Hi Bind- While I don't have an answer, I would love to know how you are treating your bart, as I believe ALLLLL of my symptoms are that of Bart. My panic is off the charts!!! I'm on IV roceph for 30 days and would love to know how you are treating your bart symptoms and who's protocol you are using..

Kindest-
LJ
Posted 4/24/2014 12:54 PM (GMT -5)
Hi, Freebird74

I am taking Bactrim, Biaxin, and Ceftin. I've been on this combo for about 5 months, but I really think adding the Bactrim is what is working for me. I stopped it for a few weeks and added Zhang's HH, and used that for a few weeks, but later went back on the Bactrim. I stopped the HH becaue I was getting dizzier and having more anxiety, which my doctor thinks was herx related, but I couldn't handle more than 2 a day.

I'm adding Tindamax next week for Lyme.

I have a LLMD who uses an integrative approach, like a lot of the docs who treat Lyme.

I should add that I began treatment on Biaxin and Augmentin, but had to stop the Augmentin after a few months.

My anxiety and panic were seriously so bad that I couldn't leave the house or have a conversation inside a store. I became really scared and anti-social. So, I hear you on that one! I think the psychological symptoms were just as bad, if not worse, than the physical.

It has definitely improved.

Do you have a good doctor?
Posted 4/24/2014 12:57 PM (GMT -5)
What I have seen with co-infections is that there always seems to be a dominant bug whose symptoms are stronger and more dominant than others. It is possible that Babesia is not the dominant bug and so therefore, only some of its symptoms are noticeable.

Before I treated Lyme, most of my symptoms were of Lyme. As I treated Lyme, those symptoms lessened but the symptoms from bartonella became stronger and I noticed more of them. Now that I am treating bartonella, the babesia symtoms are slowly coming to the surface.
Posted 4/24/2014 1:02 PM (GMT -5)
Thanks, Healing98.

This is what my intuition tells me, as well. Exactly as you said- that the dominant one pops out. I guess Babesia might be my "little" bug, and Bartonella was my big one. Or maybe it's the Lyme popping out, and I don't even have Babesia. lol. Perplexing.

Thanks!
Posted 4/24/2014 1:09 PM (GMT -5)
Hey Binduspire.

I think some drugs do cross and treat different infections.

In your case... You are taking bactrim and biaxin. These 2 will treat both babesia AND bartonella. Also biaxin will treat Lyme as well.

You are on a good combo.

I wonder if cell wall drugs are absoutely necessary for spirochete form? There are LLMDs who think so and LLMDs who think not? I am confused on this. So far it seems my treatment has been working with out one. I have never used any cell wall drugs yet on my treatment like any penicillins or cephalosporins.

How is the ceftin for you?
Posted 4/24/2014 1:29 PM (GMT -5)
Hi, LymePickle.

I'm so glad to hear that I'm actually treating both of them! My doctor always thought Bartonella was my biggest problem, so she went after that first. I'd really like to not have to add Mepron in the future, but...I guess I will just do what I have to do.

My doctor said that Biaxin is for intracellular, and Augmentin was for extracellular. I also take GSE for the cyst, and Nattokinnase for the biofilms.

I guess more cysts will get hit from Lyme when I (get the nerve to) take Tindamx that is sitting on my shelf.

The Ceftin seems to work well for me. I don't recall having any significant herxes with it, but when I look back on my chart it seems like I made a little progress when I added this, with the Bactrim, at full doses.

Are you making progress with your treatment?
Posted 4/24/2014 1:49 PM (GMT -5)
Yes I am making great progress!

The Tinidazole has worked very well. Probably the one medication out of all of the ones I used that I can really notice the difference for Lyme treatment. I can actually feel various places of my body herxing on it and after each pulse round it would clean up those locations.

On Sunday I got to the point of being practically symptom free. Monday I think I started getting an upper spine herx. Some inflammation and soreness in my upper back.

The only thing that upset me about my treatment is I am doing a 5 days on 2 days off of tinidazole pulsing. After I stop the Tinidiazole for like 2 days, I notice slight symptoms come back. Like I will feel it again in some nerves in my face, and inside my brain in particular. I just say to myself oh well I guess I have to take another round of tinidiazole.

The feeling I get in my brain is a pulsing vibration feeling. It is hard to describe it but I know that is Lyme. I don't get that feeling on the tinidazole so I know it's working in the brain.

How is the grapefruit seed extract working for you? I tried it, but I didn't get any herx out of it like I do with the tinidiazole.
Posted 4/24/2014 4:04 PM (GMT -5)
Great news that you are doing much better!

And also great news that the tinidazole is working so effectively!

I'm too scared to take it. I'm supposed to be starting with 250 mg 2x a day for 2 days, and the rest of the week off. My doctor said this is a lower dose because she knows how sensitive I am to stuff. I get the weird brain vibrations, too- and a feeling like the back of my skull has some numbing band running up it. I think it is the Lyme, as well.

I've been taking the GSE for awhile now, 2x a day, so I don't notice a herx anymore. But at the very beginning of treatment, before any antibiotics, I herxed from it. I mostly had a major increase in my dizziness for about a week. I'll have to ask her at my next appointment if I really need to keep taking it. From what I remember, it doesn't necessarily kill cysts, but it prevents them from growing. Does that sound right?
Posted 4/25/2014 9:52 AM (GMT -5)
Like someone said above, I don't believe I ever had the symptoms of Lyme disease but rather the co-infection that brought me to my knees and the doctor.

I have a LLNEURO and LLpsych.

Because it's all in my head :-) no pun intended

However, my neurologist treat accordingly, and not aggressively. Could be a good thing, could be a bad thing but I'm definitely making an appointment with a regular LLMD
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