tindamax or flagyl - safest/least side effects?

I just wrote a long post...and somehow it didn't show up...lyme brain acting up again.

Okay, so during my last Dr. appt., we discussed either adding biaxin to my ammox or a cyst buster. He mentioned he thought tindamax was either safer or less side effects (can't remember which) than Flagyl. He also mentioned grapefruit seed extract. I have decided against the GFE due to the recent findings of a lot being contaminated.

Anyway, I chose to add biaxin..so I'm thinking in a few weeks at my next appt., he will want to add a cyst buster. He likes to either change, or add every 4 weeks.

First question: does biaxin affect bart at all...even a little bit?
second: Is tindamax either safer or less side effects than Flagyl?

I know Lymepickle likes these technical questions...so hoping you read this LP!!!

I had read somewhere that Biaxin worked across all 3 B's.

TindaMax is suppose to be less toxic than Flagyl

Hi Girlie- the 3 B's are the triple threat... Or the triple triad trio, we can them BBB. Borrelia, Bartonella, and Babesia.

But luckily you only have 2 of the 3 B's right? That is good news for you because babesia alone is a 5-6 month treatment! Lol. I also only have 2 of the 3 B's. Not having babesia is huge, we would literally be 3 times sicker if we had that too.

So I asked Dr.Ross this question , he said, "hands down, tinidazole is far better." It's far more effective against lyme germs, better tolerated, and has few side effects. Flagyl is more readily available, hence why we just call it flagyl rather than call it metronidazole. I think most pharmacies carry flagyl. Also "tindimax" I don't think is available in Canada. You have to buy "tinidazole" from a compounding pharmacy.

Tinidazole is actually the most effective medication known so far against lyme. For some reason this medication really kills lyme germs! It is literally 2-3 times more effective per dose than flagyl is. I think the lyme DNA is literally right on it's outer membrane. Or lyme is somewhat anaerobic bacteria and this medication accumulates in places of low oxygen. I can think of like 5 people who used tinidazole that cured lyme. (Okay I know we're not supposed to use the C word, I will say remission then). The medication also gets into the brain so it is excellent for neuro lyme too.

Here are the drug comparisons:

Macrolides: clarithromycin (biaxin) or azithromycin: biaxin is the better lyme drug. Borrellia is more succepitible to biaxin and it crosses the BBB whereas azithromycin doesn't.

Tetracyclines: in terms of killing power against borrelia. The original tetracycline is actually the best one. But I don't think this gets into all the tissues as well. Doxy has the best biofilms busting capabilities, but mino has the best tissue, nerve, and brain penetration.

Cell-wall drugs: amoxicillin is actually the least effective, followed by penicillin. Cephalosporins are actually very effective against SPIROCHETES and poke holes in them. Rocephin, ceftin, supax are the best. (Here in Canada our choices are ceftin or supax going the oral route).

Azoles: metronidazole (flagyl), or tinidazole (tindimax, or fasigyn in some countries)... Tinidazole is better tolerated, and for some reason borrelia is more vulnerable to this drug than flagyl. It's proven in test tubes to be more effective.

Plaquenil: considered a co-drug to support all the other abx and make them work better. Improved the effectiveness of treating intracellularly.

Septra DS: folate synthesis inhibitor. This has the lowest inhibition concentration and generally well tolerated for borrelia. I bring this drug up because it also helps with bart. And your lyme infection will never get worse while on this because the lyme germs will not reproduce.

I like Dr.Ross's rules. Never work with more than 3 abx at a time. (Plaquenil is considered a co-drug though and is actually quite cheap, it also helps keep the body alkaline which is important as these infections make things in the body acidic.)

Some suggestions for you girlie:

Minocycline + septra DS + plaquenil + tinidazole (this is the combo I used to get well fast, but have had Bart ever since)
Minocycline + biaxin + plaquenil + tinidazole (this one is the house cleaner)
Ceftin + minocycline + tinidazole. (Doesn't get bart though)

Another interesting combo I read about recently is alternating between ceftin or supax... Then switcing to minocycline every 3 or 4 days all while taking plaquenil. I like the idea of taking less abx though.

I don't know if plaquenil is an effective cyst buster or not. Some say it is, some say it promotes cysts to form, one thing for sure is using it reduces the chance of a relapse.

Also just so you know! The Buhner bart/mycoplasma herbs WORK! So if you ever decide like you want something lighter, and easier to tolerate, you always have that choice.

Did this help girlie? Oh and one miraculous thing about tinidazole... It works against biofilms! Yes, this drug goes right through biofilms just like light goes through glass lol. Well if that is a comparison. Anyways, I thougnt I would bring that point up as one of the reasons lyme becomes chronic in some people and difficult to treat is because of the biofilms.

Yes LP - I'm psyched about the biaxin having an effect on bart.

But you never answered my question about the side effects/risks with tinidazole....does that mean they're so bad, you don't want to give me the bad news? haha

And yes, I don't think I have babesia. The first supposed LLND I went to...who took my blood and sent it to Igenex, was going to treat me with doxy and mepron to start. She wanted to treat babesia...I didn't know if I had it...so I'm glad i didn't stay with her. I thought we should treat with lyme meds and see what 'shakes out'.
Dr. C. hasn't mentioned me having babesia...and I have a lot of pain, but not sick feeling ever. I did have some night sweats...but not drenching sweats...and they have already calmed down to less frequent and more like warm sweats.

Sorry, LP - looks like you answered my questions while I was typing another post.
Thanks.

Thanks, Chapelle. I'm concerned about both Flagyl and Tindamax.
So, did you use GSE? and if so, what brand is okay?

If I do Tindamax - I was thinking just short term - maybe two weeks to bust some cysts and then maybe a GSE...or is that a bad idea?
I figure at least I will get some benefits, but maybe not any serious side effects - being on it short-term.

ahhh - decisions!!!

Chapelle - what do you think of rifampin? I was thinking for bart. Did the bactrim take care of your bart?

I've begun to research Tindamax because my LLMD mentioned the possibility of me taking it when he started to suspect Babesia. (this was based upon the hot flash I had in his office and the few I'd had before seeing him).

I also became interested in it as a cyst-buster because I want every single borrelia out of my body (if possible :)

Great info exchanged on here! And, Girlie, I completely understand your dilemma.

Did anyone find any more info on Tindamax or experiences that they're willing to share?

And, truly - what's the deal with flagyl?

Flagyl made me go psychotic, ha ha! I was on a FULL dose for C. Diff. I started calling people in the middle of the night.

Tindamax was much gentler.

Margaret

I was on tinidazole 1000 mg for 6 months. Worked very well to get rid of certain symptoms. Herxs do happen of course but no nerve pain ( I did get nerve pain herxs from other meds but never tinidazole ).

Girlie... How is your treatment going?

Azoles truly are a double edged sword. We have to consider the risks carefully.

If you do choose them... Maybe consider lower dosing? Just my thought.

Lymepickle - my treatment is slow going. I've had a few evenings where my usual flairs haven't happened - like maybe once a week.

For some reason my scalp is itchy for the past week...who knows what that's all about.

Today my lymph node (clavicle) is swollen and sore. It's been like that before...so I may be herxing...as I had the vibrations pretty bad today, too.
I googled swollen lymph nodes...but shouldn't have. I gotta stop doing that.
I think overall I must be somewhat better because I'm doing more things without hesitation - like going out for dinner...etc. I even went to a movie a couple weeks ago.
But, I've said this before...I think because my nerve pain - upper left side is such a dominant symptom, that it could be over-riding symptom relief in other areas...because it's so horrible.

I just stopped taking tinidazole. I took it twice a day, 2 times per week. I also am on Rifampin and Biaxin daily. I also pulsed Arteminsin

First I was on Tinidazole 500mg total then 1000mg. I herxed specifically when I started it, and then when the dosage was upped. After that no more. So LLMD said to drop it.

I must note Tinidazole is really really strong stuff. Made me very sick at first but I did adjust to it after a month and about two weeks... BUT my spine pain was unreal 8/9 out of 10 scale and it now is almost gone.

All of my symptoms are peripheral neuropathy so I was nervous taking it. If you don't take either one for an extended period of time, their is no permanent damage. I would give tindamax a try. You can always try pulsing it do avoid and nerve damage. There are side effects to many abx. I actually just saw that Biaxin can cause nerve damage too.

The damage is usually reversible when the drug is stopped. you would need to be on it for a long time for permanent damage. Discuss your concerns with your LLMD and decide on a plan that will work for you.