How many antibiotics are too much and frankly unhealthy and/or unnecessary?

My personal opinion, and there are many varied opinions out there:

Some people prefer abx, some people benefit more from them, and some people do better on a hybrid of abx + herbs and some people do great on herbs alone. Like everything else about treatment for these infections, each person will have their own unique journey and experience.

Some LLMDs have a background in western medicine, so they are more comfortable using abx, just like some LLNDs will be more comfortable w/ alternative tx. Mine does both and I respond to both differently and they both have different impacts on my healing.

My view of the controversy over abx use is that it is a very convenient way to discredit the existence of the lyme & confection epidemic, discredit anything "chronic", and discredit those who treat us. We do have a problem with widespread abx use (although now, as opposed to 10 yrs ago when MDs were prescribing it like Pez, the predominant use is in animals used in food production… and of course, people like me were put on abx for years at a time for acne tx).

Our future is not in abx, as scientists, researchers, microbiologists, etc are exploring more effective means to control bacteria. So, in the long run, I believe we won't be using abx much and the resistance issue will be moot.

Also, I suspect that "people don't get better" for a whole host of reasons… Some LLMDs don't take a holistic approach to healing, don't address other infections to reduce the overload on immune system (viral, fungal loads), don't address leaky gut, which destroys your ability to absorb nutrients/meds/supps properly, detox effectively, and healing the gut where 70% of your immune system lives, and don't effectively address confections or aren't addressing the dominant confection at certain periods…

Sometimes people aren't detoxing effectively because of unknown DNA mutations that affect methylation (processing of hormones, chemicals, enzymes, etc) and detoxing, or problems with how their GI works (I found out I naturally have a low level of good bacteria in my gut, which makes me extra vulnerable to GI/immune problems), others have conditions that make it difficult to process anything unnatural.

And, your body is dynamic while you're in treatment, every day your body is changing on a molecular level, your infection load is changing, your toxin level is changing, so many things are dynamically impacting how you're feeling from day to day. It's much more informative to gather information over a period of time to truly understand how your treatment is impacting you. Over time, your treatment should also be reassessed as it continues to have impact on your changing condition. And I really hold on to the notion that the goal is to get your immune system strong enough to be in control. Your body has an amazing capacity to heal.

So I'm leery of oversimplification of effective or ineffective treatment as all about abx or no abx… the issues are so much more complex and we WIN when we figure out what works best for us. We're LUCKY if we have good support from LLMDs and often it takes more than one "way", "approach", "process", etc.

Success stories that will hopefully be a sticky thread soon will be so important for those of us still on our journey, as I believe they help guide us, support us and give us ideas and give us hope.

A little longwinded… sorry. ;)

p

Post Edited (Pirouette) : 5/23/2015 4:22:06 PM (GMT-6)

Hi you bring up some good points. Every person is different. You need to monitor yourself and the side effects. Blood work can also monitor blood cells, organ functioning etc.

I have been on antibiotics for almost 2 years. I have taken breaks because I felt I needed them. I also adjusted doses to what I thought I could handle. My doctor is fantastic and I owe him my life. But I also listen to my body and make adjustments as needed. Dr also told me taking breaks can help you see where you are with the disease.

I am 90% better and continue to function fine. Without the antibiotics I would have lost my job, insurance and my mind. Good luck to you and research and read as much as possible. You will figure this out.

Deejavu - I totally agree with what you say...and applaud you and others who have healed without antibiotics.

The interesting thing in my case is I have believed in natural healing for most of my adult years...and prior to lyme rarely took medications - I think the only time was thirty years ago I was on antibiotics for strep throat. I have had a healthy, vibrant life until lyme.

So, you say, why not continue with the natural route to heal lyme? One word comes to my mind: fear.

This disease ravaged my mind and body...and scared the crap out of me...I felt like I needed something powerful to knock it out. I was scared to death.

Am I worried about the damage of antibiotics? yes.
I question my decision all the time....and I am constantly debating...should I stop now...and go to the herbs?
I am on a break from antibiotics now...due to raised liver enzymes...so the decision may be made for me.

Yes, agreed P. Antibiotics have saved many lives...including my husband's - when he had a staph infection in his forearm...and the infection was moving up his arm very quickly.


But, in terms of lyme...I am impressed with those who have healed without antibiotics. But, we need to choose the path that we are comfortable with...and I chose antibiotics...do I regret it? No. But, I may have to switch over - we'll see in a few days what the results of the tests show.

You have a different case, though, with having to bypass your GI.

I have used milk thistle throughout treatment, also burbur. I also use ALA, and Acetyl-L-Cysteine.

I think the antibiotics have been too much for my poor liver.

I would say two or three at the most, and not Cipro (bad experience for me)!

Abx can have pretty serious and long lasting effects, although my dog is on long-term doxy, but doxy only.

I'm going to try herbs only.

I've done that before, and nothing seems to help, regardless, but I'm going to go back to the "hooch," (Traveler's herbal tea).

I had a friend who was on five abx, which seemed a bit shocking to me.

She stopped though, and she's better (from Lyme, I mean). She had massive herxing though.

I'm sure she's still taking some prescription drugs.

Sometimes an herb/abx combo works.

Margaret

Hi all,

When I say the antibiotics are toxic, I don't know how much of that is really true since I don't know the ingredient list for each antibiotic and even if I did, I would have to spend a lot of time to research those ingredients. I'm not a chemist though I do enjoy researching. I do know there are fillers in those abx and that's not healthy (someone on this forum posted the ingredient list for a couple of abx, I forgot who).

LP, I was prescribed 6 months of Doxy but what I left out of my story was that even though I took the Doxy most of the time I ended up with my head hanging over the toilet because the doxy made me so sick to my stomach. I don't know how much of the Doxy I really absorbed. I didn't go the entire 6 months because I was tired of being so sick to my stomach even though I took it with food, crackers, etc.

I think antibiotics are good when a person first catches lyme. Looking back to when I was a kid I had a staph infection and abx helped me. So I'm not totally against abx. It really depends on what's going on. If herbs can do a better job without the side effects, then I choose herbs. My personal choice.

A year ago I had major surgery and the surgeon prescribed me abx in which I stayed quiet but when I got home I took one of Dr. J's botanicals to kill any possible infection (I took Microbojen). I healed fantastically without taking 1 antibiotic.

Okay, enough for now, I'm not fully awake yet!!

Denise

IV abx are probably the most effective for Lyme (as opposed to pills).

But they are very expensive.

Margaret

I didn't mean to start this sort of war lol. We need to come together. However, conversation on subversive topics are Always good!

Listen, I was having seizures and bed ridden for four years with widespread full bodied pain in exquisite pain all over. I needed antibiotics. I had four tick borne illnesses, many people can't afford the herbs, and I know people's are going to, "say everyone should be able to". That would be nice. That's very idealistic.

I also got a severe yeast infection and candida. I think people should take up to three years, maybe three and a half for severe Chronic Lyme Disease, like I had. This includes the other co-infections the patient has, which is at times up to five or six, usually around three. I didn't describe half of the hell I went through. They should try and use the right amount of antibiotics, for as little time as possible, then move to the herbs, which are remarkably effective. The herbs can heal any bacteria/infection. We completely ignore it in the west. It's amazing, This is my own opinion.

Post Edited (AlextheLymeFighter) : 5/31/2015 5:50:30 PM (GMT-6)

Actually one point I can make... I think abtibiotics can ruin our digestive tracts. Before ABX I could eat any food, now I have so many food sensitivities, and I think it is because of the Abx that are to blame.

I was actually doing a little reseaech and found that abx use is related to celiacs disease. Or there is a very strong correlation between the two. Before this I didn't have any problems with gluten, and now I notice i can't tolerate gluten nearly as well.

I have Celiac Disease. Is there an way of healing it? Since when is it genetic? Is this new information?

Lol traveler, I'm ivery knowledgable about Lyme and Tick born illness, however, I'm used to speaking with regular people about it, not Lymies who get 'it'. :). More and more people get it now due to the celebrities who are exposed. The hamptons is chalk full of Lyme Disease!

Lyme Pickle

Food sensitivities are, in most cases, the direct result of leaky gut. Leaky gut is caused primarily by yeast/fungal overgrowth, which occurs often with long term abx and herb use w/out proper replacement of good bacteria. Some people even need to incorporate antifungals into their treatment due to a predisposition to y/f overgrowth before starting tx or DNA mutations as a natural state at birth that leave them w/ a lower volume of good bacteria or natural defenses against y/f overgrowth.

Here is a good thread regarding food sensitivities and leaky gut. Food sensitive/allergic conditions are very different from celiac disease. When a person has leaky gut, as everything they eat is digested fecal matter leaks out through holes y/f creates in the mucosal membrane. Your immune system reacts to the food particles, thinking it's foreign substance since it's not supposed to be there. But some foods/substances are more reactive than others, like gluten.
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=3294327

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