My update....

hey Utah,

I can understand your frustration. Not all people have a defined herx. It sounds like your LLMD is on a good protocol and moving to IV was good given little or no improvement on the oral protocols.

I spent a long time on IV before seeing progress while going back and forth hitting Babs and Bart. My LLMD said to expect a good herx on week 4 of IV, but that didn't happen for me.

Slow progress could might mean co-infections are holding you back. Until you find the right ABX/herbal combo when that particular co-infection is active will you see changes. Hang in there.

I would have to ask which Buhner protocol and herbs you were using. You seriously need to use the whole protocol - which ever one you were using. The herbs work together synergistically and really need to be taken together for maximum effect. The lyme protocol is outdated and he will be coming out with a new version soon.

Lyme doesn't travel on it's own, so I would assume that other infections are at play as well. Thomas Rau says viruses are always a problem, which is why vaccinations often cause lyme emergence.

Were you treating only one infection ie lyme? The lyme herbs won't really effect bart or babs, and the bart herbs won't effect babs. Have you considered adding herbs (especially the antimicrobial ones) from the other protocols to investigate the production of a reaction?

If the antimicrobial herbs did nothing for you (sida, alchornea, cryptolepis, houttuynia), I would investigate the immune supporting herbs (rhodiola, cordyceps and other mushrooms, astragalus, the ginsengs) to at least help your immune system address whatever infections you have; the anti-inflammatory herbs (knotweed, kudzu), as well as the herbal antivirals.

Healing doesn't only mean taking antimicrobials. Have you changed your diet to include optimum nutrition (ie Terry Wahls, PerfectHealthDiet, ChrisBeatsCancer). The food needs to be organic because roundup acts as a chelator and grabs minerals. Minerals may be present in the food, but they will not be bioavailable. Because all of our food (even organic) is so impacted a mineral will be necessary.

Are you using liposomal glutathione or glutathione precursors (NAC, l-glutamine, glycine)? Are you supplementing with methylated B vitamins? Simply being ill will impact methylation/detoxification, you don't need the genetic deletions to necessarily have problems with methylation.

I agree with the others, that you likely have an infection or other things that are holding you back from healing. If your doctor has been going after only one infection this whole time, then it's possible that you need to go after another one instead, or if there is one that your doc hasn't gone after, it could be the one that's holding you back.

There has been recent evidence of symptom-free infections also holding us back. I know that I had very few symptoms of Babesia until my Lyme and Bart infections had been mostly treated.

Yes, it can take 5 weeks to herx. Everyone's body is on it's own schedule, depending on what all it may be dealing with.

Make sure you are taking tons of probiotics and fermented foods to deal with the diarrhea, and continue to detox and hopefully this herx won't last long for you!!

Thank you for all the thoughtful responses!

I'm guessing that it is a herx. I think I will email my LLMD with the update. She said at my last appt that not everyone responds to herbs or orals. Some people simply need IV meds for whatever reason. They do treat people at my clinic with herbs as well as abx. So my LLMD does believe in herbs.

I did try to combine many of the Buhner herbs, treating all the B's. (Borrelia, babs, and Bart). None of them evoked a response. Even at high doses. I followed Buhner's book as well as advice from this forum (Traveller, MM, Rowingmom......). I do believe that I gave it a fair shot, and I do believe that I did it correctly. It simply didn't work.

The orals I took were changed every 6 weeks or so. I did take mepron with biaxin....that should have covered babesia. Maybe I didn't take it long enough?

I did take flagyl or tindamax with most every rotation I did. That should have covered cysts.

I did take doxy and rifampin....that should have covered Bart and erlichia and anaplasmosis, and mycoplasma???

I have taken 1 month of IV glutiathione. It made no difference at all and was very expensive, so I quit.

My diet isn't the worst, but not purely organic either. I find it hard to believe that my diet is why I'm not improving. I do eat mostly healthy.

I guess I will ask LLMD if we can add some more babesia treatment back in. I do recall last winter that I had terrible night sweats for several weeks. She did treat me with mepron for a month or so. The sweats ended, but maybe I still have resistant babesia.

For now I'm on the BRAT diet until I get this diarrhea under control.


My 11 yr old has been on abx for 8 weeks now and had some German herbs added in about 2 weeks ago. She is no better either. I don't think she has herxed yet either. I may pick Rowingmom's brain for a kid's Buhner herb approach. I've been hesitant because it didn't work for me. But I suppose that I shouldn't count it out for her. Plus, I already have most of the tinctures just sitting on my kitchen counter. Lol.

How long did you take Mepron and Biaxin? 6 weeks is not enough, especially if you didn't herx.