Bartonella questions

Mom of 2

I'm in the same boat. I got to 80 to 85% after over four years of treatment, then weaned off ABX slowly, but kept on some herbals and supps. Bart sx came back after 2 to 3 months.

At this point I'm back on abx combo and a good number of Buhner's herbs. When I get back to 80 to 85% percent again, I will stay on that protocol for maybe forever for maintenance.

Bryan Rosner wrote in his latest book that "the last 10% of healing is the most difficult".

Good question... its just a guess.

My neuro issues like peripheral neuropathy and brain fog from Lyme and Bart may overlap, and many say could they also can be caused by Candida. But another sx I get that I tie to Bart is spontaneous unexplained skin rashes similar to blood blisters (but not raised) and bruise marks. I don't think these rashes are that common to Lyme, nor from Candida.

Everyone is different I guess.

Bart is really a tricky one.  Some argue Bart treatment is actually more difficult than lyme treatment is! 

But one thing for sure... People DO report "bart cures".  So it has been done.

Unfortuneately it is tough to say what the best treatment is, and there really is no standard bart treatment, there are no clinical trials where some specific treatment cures bart in double blind placebo controlled studies.  It's likely that won't happen anytime soon as mainstream medicine still thinks "Bart is self-limiting disease that resolves without treatment".  But really the treatment doesn't make much difference in symptoms, and there aren't any great tests for it, so it puts the people who are suffering with it in limbo.  Also, there are reports of some people who don't really need treatment as their immune system is strong and healthy.   So the talk about "self-limiting disease" is only partly true in a small percentage of people. 

But as we mentioned there are people that have beat bartonella, without it ever relapsing again.  The general consenses is that for a successful bart treatment, it needs to go on for a 6 month minimum time period.  

That is a minimum... Now some reasons for bart persistence is that it can get really deep into tissues, infect places like the bone marrow, the entire circulatory system, can embed in biofilms, etc. 

You can watch the webinar on Bartonella at Galaxy Diagnostics web page, it was actually just released and I felt it had a huge wealth of information.  Dr. M ... The world's leading Doctor in treating Bartonella actually hosts the second half of the webinar...  His treatment is using clarithromycin (500 mg BID) for the first month, adding in rifampin (300 mg BID) for the second month, and then increasing the rifampin to (600 mg BID) for the third month and then treating for 6 months after the 2nd step up in rifampin medication.  He has a graph of the antibodies released through the course of treatment, and the last of the bart antibodies are released around the 6th month.  But he has also mentioned he has had a few persistant patients...

Some good adjuncts used by him include the use of lumbrokinase and serrapeptase to help dissolve blood clots in the circulatory system where bart can hide.  Also recommended by my Lyme doc is Transfer Factors LymPlus as this has transfer factors for bartonella as well. 

So there is the clarithromycin + rifampin combo which is now thought to be the best bet for treating bart completely.  But of course some people have had success with herbs like houttuynia, sida acuta, alchornea, cryptolepis, A-bart, etc...  But I think having a treatment long enough is important and it's difficult to say exactly when that is!  Some people i have heard that beat bart... took rifampin for 1.5 years... whereas others somehow beat it in 1 month with levaquin!  (but I would definitely avoid the quinolones after reading everything I read about them)... So it's hard to say how to beat it for sure. 

 

"My neuro issues like peripheral neuropathy and brain fog from Lyme and Bart may overlap, and many say could they also can be caused by Candida. But another sx I get that I tie to Bart is spontaneous unexplained skin rashes similar to blood blisters (but not raised) and bruise marks. I don't think these rashes are that common to Lyme, nor from Candida. "

tickbite666—I thought I had written that at first glance… describes me exactly (although I have other stuff too).

You never "get rid of" any of these infections… they will always be with us. Successful treatment is about lowering the infection volume enough that our immune systems become dominant and keep symptoms at bay by keeping the infection load down. But our immune systems will always be vulnerable to stress/trauma (either psychological or physical or physiological), another illness, digestive distress (where 70% of the immune system IS). So it seems will always be prone to relapses unless we stay in very good health and avoid trauma! Only time will tell if this is true for me or any of us.

BTW—I have a lot of success w/ Byron White A-Bart formulas.

-p

Well, I'm late to the party as usual!!

First of all, I'd like to repeat what has been said - no one ever has to apologize for not being here because they were trying to care for themselves - that's actually something that we Mods remind each other of frequently - Your own health absolutely MUST always come before the forum!!!

So, while I'm so very sorry that you all had to take a break from the forum, don't ever feel bad and please do return as you can!! We love hearing from you!!!

Some people have trouble getting rid of Bartonella, some people have trouble getting rid of Babesia, some deal with mold and that's what is holding back their healing, others deal with adrenal or thyroid issues and that holds back their healing or whatever. I can say that it seems that I have healed from Bartonella, and Babesia though - at least I'm 3 years with no symptoms from any of the infections, other than the Lyme that I was reinfected with last summer - and those symptoms are gone too.

With the experience that I had personally, and what I've watched others go through, here is what I believe needs to happen for many of us to heal:

a)Detoxing - gene mutations, mold exposure and multiple tick-borne infections can all prevent us from detoxing well, but we must be able to get those toxins out of our bodies.

b)Supporting the body functions/systems. We have to have the body working at it's peak performance to heal from something as devastating as these infections. Supporting any gland, organ, body system that is struggling will allow the body to switch it's 'concentration' from just trying to function over to healing.

c) Raise the immune function. Many legitimate Lyme researchers now believe that it's the lowered immune function that determines who gets chronic Lyme and who heals right away. We already know that Lyme lowers the immune function and when a person has Bartonella and/or Babesia, the immune function is further compromised, so to heal we must raise our immune function.

d) Lastly, oddly enough, are anti-infective treatments. Many of us have experienced treatment failures, so we can see that the treatments aren't the only thing we need to have - there has to be more to the equation, but anti-infective treatments are very important!! Lyme bacteria are one of the most complicated bacteria! ​Although it takes only hours or days for most bacteria to replicate, Lyme bacteria only replicates in the body every few weeks.​

It's a shame that we must all become very good detectives to be able to heal from these infections, but we do what we must!

Mom of 2 - how long were you off the bart antibiotics before the symptoms started again? And was it rifampin you used...and paired with what other antibiotic?

Interesting & helpful discussion, webinar links. I am wondering about under treatment now.

And why can't one buy rifampin for their pets w/o prescrip?

One of the docs, Dr M, lecturing I looked up $1250/consult fee--poor sick people & crazy unaffordable costs!

After watching that webinar.... i switched LLMD.. sice i am sure about Bart and i felt that my treatment where ineffective against that.

Now i'm doing Rifampin 300 mg twice a day and clarithromycine 500mg twice a day.

I also started with one teaspoon of houttuniya a day. Powdered form.

I cannot rule out babesia so i take neem and yarrow and cryptolesis and of course artemisa which i pulse

I really dont feel that i have Lyme though. Which is strange cause if i only had bartonella i would prob heal by myself

A lot of others supplements of course..

Oh yea i started to take coffe enema as well. Since this will increase gluthatione in body by almost 700%