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Dr Jemsek protocol? desperately ill

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Posted 12/31/2015 9:05 PM (GMT -5)
I am so sick, I can barely go on. I cant sleep. almost constant pain in my head, horrible teeth pain, muscle stiffness, spasms.
Today i read Traveler's post re the cyst busters maybe not being effective. I am at a real low.
the only doctor i have read has had real success is Dr. Jemsek. He is openly an LLMD why i am posting his name.
What is his protocol?
I have had Rocephin IVs for 2 months (with some days off when i was too sick to move) I take 250mg of tinidazole before the Rocephin - to bust cysts.
I get terrible head pressure, debilitating headaches, searing electric tooth pain and muscle contractions, every day.
Do i continue? Every post i read about Rocephin says to stay the course, for at least 4 - 5 months.
I am only getting worse and worse. continuous herx?
I rotate Ambien - so bad for you -and melatonin to sleep. The melatonin exacerbates my bruxism SO much.
without meds i dont sleep even 10 minutes - for days on end.
I am desperate :(
and afraid to change my protocol, for fear of sliding backwards...
Posted 12/31/2015 10:55 PM (GMT -5)
I'd like to add, what all are you doing for detoxing? And when was the last time your adrenals were tested with a 4 (or more) collection for saliva?

Magnesium is known for easing some of our muscle issues, are you taking any?

I was on ambien for about a year because I was having the same issues with my sleep. Mine was due to severe adrenal fatigue. I have to use a cocktail of melatonin, magnesium, Lidtke brand tryptophan and valerian. We are each different though, as this has to do with brain chemistry and these infections.
Posted 12/31/2015 10:59 PM (GMT -5)
You poor thing. I cannot imagine. I had tooth and jaw pain and it was horrible. I know about the head pain too.

Please tell this all to your doctor.

You are in my prayers swede.
Posted 1/1/2016 12:14 AM (GMT -5)
I read jemsek uses clarithomycin. Heart goes to you swede..what is toxicity and what is bug?.the magnisium is key twitching is less with it. I heard it is used to construct fortress that is biofilm.but we need it . The tini uses all the b6 also read that post by lyme md thanks trav i was just about desperate wnouhh to take doxy tini combo then i read the comments below..i am so confused i want relief
Posted 1/1/2016 8:38 AM (GMT -5)
So sorry to hear of these difficulties, swede!!

Dr. J seems to be all about heavy-duty abx and people have healed under his care. His way isn't the only way, though. People heal with established herbal protocols as well.

I, too, wonder what you are doing for detoxing. Feeling worse during treatment means we need to detox more. Sometimes, that can feel like a part-time job.

Still, the sooner you can clear the dead bug parts, the better you will feel.

It's really a good idea to continually add to your detox protocol using a variety of methods....daily. Perhaps you can find a few things to add from this list:

tiredoflyme.com/detox-methods.html

Hope you feel better soon!!!
Posted 1/5/2016 4:13 PM (GMT -5)
Hi Mister Mike, Trav, PeteZa, Bluelyme and CD - i am sorry for the delay in answering your kind posts. I have a very rough time. Headache so severe its hard to breathe, cant move for 12 hours at a time.
Diarrhea, weakness.
I am losing hope. There arent any success stories. Everyone is still sick. I only know of the same 3 - 4 people on this board who got better - and the lyme board has thousands of members.
Utahgal contacted me and she is not better at all, despite 1 year of aggressive oral abx, then 4+ months of rocephin, flagyl, doxy IVs. not better at all, just got c diff.
Her friend is seeing Dr Jemsek and after 6 months of his intense IV protocol she has lost her ability to walk and is now in a wheel chair.
Are we all fooling ourselves?
PLEASE - how many healing well members have gotten better? I really need hope
Posted 1/5/2016 4:54 PM (GMT -5)
Hi Swede in LA, I hate to hear how your feeling...please hang in there!!!

I must say...alot of the symptoms you mentioned sound as if you have babesia co-infection. This could be possible despite any tests as they are unreliable. You can treat with IV rocephin, flagyl, doxy and all those target lyme mainly but barely will even touch babesia if you have it and will only make the babesia come out more actually. Doxy and Flagyl can touch babesia slightly but rocephin will not touch it at all. I KNOW from experience as I too, tried all those drugs you listed about Utahgal, and for me, they made my lyme symptoms subside mostly but made babesia symptoms rear their head.

Seriously, I wasnt even going to post but I really wanted to bring this up to you. #1-your symptoms sound like babesia, and reason #2, Dr. Burrascano (along w/other llmd's) states that when a lyme treatment is not working, it is likely because of a babesia/Or babs-like-organism has not been addressed and holding back treatment from working.

Dont give up or give in to this illness! The majority of people get well! They just dont come back to post because they lived lyme so much that they ran for the border when they were finally free! ;-)

I actually have MANY success stories of people healed from lyme in my bookmarks. I will post my most recent fav that I stumbled upon here shortly so you and others can read :-)

((Hugs))
-Courtney
Posted 1/5/2016 6:13 PM (GMT -5)

swede in LA said...
Hi Mister Mike, Trav, PeteZa, Bluelyme and CD - i am sorry for the delay in answering your kind posts. I have a very rough time. Headache so severe its hard to breathe, cant move for 12 hours at a time.
Diarrhea, weakness.
I am losing hope. There arent any success stories. Everyone is still sick. I only know of the same 3 - 4 people on this board who got better - and the lyme board has thousands of members.
Utahgal contacted me and she is not better at all, despite 1 year of aggressive oral abx, then 4+ months of rocephin, flagyl, doxy IVs. not better at all, just got c diff.
Her friend is seeing Dr Jemsek and after 6 months of his intense IV protocol she has lost her ability to walk and is now in a wheel chair.
Are we all fooling ourselves?
PLEASE - how many healing well members have gotten better? I really need hope

swede, hang in there. Fortunately you are wrong regarding no success stories. . . I read about them all the time and I myself am somewhere around 94.8% there, maybe more.

Regarding this forum and all of the members that do get better, think about it this way - look at some old threads/posts and take note of the member names. Click on a few and check out their recent history....there isn't any (some exceptions of course, and yes, this could also mean they left the forum before getting better). But the fact of the matter is that most who get better don't post anymore.

Everyone I have spoken to in person who has had Lyme has gotten better. In fact, I have not met anyone who has had it that has not gotten better.
Posted 1/6/2016 3:46 PM (GMT -5)
THANK YOU so much Courtney and Fronton - I so needed to hear that.
I just feel so lost. i dont know if I am doing the right thing, as I am so sick, all the time.
Fronton - how did you get better?
Courtney, did you test positive for Babesia? I tested negative with Igenex and when I read the typical Babesia symptoms i dont think i have it? no air hunger and i only sweat 2 - 3 nights per week and not drenching. I wake up in the middle of the night in pain and my muscles are all contracted and I am wet from sweat around my neck and chest. But people with babesia talk of having to change the sheets, gasping for air, right?
I do Rocephin IVs and take tinidazole. I used to do M-Th but i am getting so sick that I have gone to 3 times per week and now I am doing jsut Tues/Thursd this week. after reading about how long it takes for the spirochetes to grow it seems we shouldnt have to take abx every day. Jemsek does all his IVs M-W-F for that reason.
I also take Cowden. But i stopped it when i started the IVs and now when I am trying to get back on them I get terrible diarrhea. So i have backed off and only take 8 drops each morning and night, titrating up every day.
Courtney will you post the success stories you know of?
thank you both again. It was so great to see your posts this morning.
Hugs - Charlotte
Posted 1/6/2016 4:59 PM (GMT -5)
Charlotte,

Please know that there are more strains of Babesia and Bartonella than tests available. And, new strains are being discovered every few months.

Just because a person tested negative for a particular strain does NOT mean they are not infected.

Healthy people are walking around with asymptomatic Babesia and Bartonella infections. Even the CDC acknowledges this on their website:

www.cdc.gov/parasites/babesiosis/

"Although many people who are infected with Babesia do not have symptoms, for those who do effective treatment is available."

If people can have no symptoms of Babesia and still be infected, it's entirely possible that those of us dealing with any of these infections could also be infected with Babesia.

I only had an occasional hot flash - that was it. My LLMD chalked it up to Lyme.

Yet, he had no explanation why almost 6 months on the full Cowden protocol could not break the plateau I hit after being on abx for 5 months.

I had herxes on some of Cowden's coinfection-specific herbs that got me wondering if I'd been dealing with Babesia/Babesia-like infection along with the Bartonella/Bartonella-like infection I always suspected I had (because my symptoms are all neuro).

Once I started taking herbs specific for Babesia, I herxed with air hunger, chest pressure, head pressure and anxiety - all hallmark Babesia. Same type of deal for me with the Bartonella herbs.

These bugs form biofilm with each other. Treating for the coinfections can make Lyme more vulnerable to treatment...and vice versa.

It sounds like you might want to consider healing your gut a bit.....more probiotics, maybe daily kefir or koombacha.

And, what all are you doing for detoxing? That's most important....you need to get your current herx under control before you do anything. In fact, you might want to consider talking to your doctor about some dose reductions until you stabilize.

No sense in killing ourselves while trying to kill the bugs.

You know, after reading of your despair (SO sorry you're at that point), I created this thread that contains success stories:

www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=3562412

Treating these infections take time.....a lot of time. And, we need to slowly whittle away at them while rebuilding our immune systems, reducing inflammation and helping our organs to heal. Tall order but it's possible.
Posted 1/6/2016 8:24 PM (GMT -5)
Hi swede in LA!-

I feel so bad to hear how much you are hurting. I wish I had an answer for all of your pain, but I don't.

The only thing that I can suggest is to try more ways of detoxing.

P.S- I also tested negative for Bartonella and Babesia through IGeneX. But like so many others have said - these tests (can be unreliable) only look for one type of Babs, or Bart.. and there are a lot of different strains that we don't get tested for.

My LLMD is treating me for Lyme, Babs. , and Bart.

Sending you many (((hugs!)))
Posted 1/6/2016 9:34 PM (GMT -5)
Hi CD and Little Bear - thank you so much for reaching out.
thanks to you I just ordered Enula and Cryptolepsis. I will see how i do!
you all think my symptoms sound more like Babs than Bart, right?
Little Bear, how long have you been treating - are you getting better?
I have carried lyme for 13 years before i was diagnosed. Had a huge EM in 2002, but had only some symptoms (back ache, headaches) until my husband was diagnosed with terminal brain cancer in 2010. Symptoms exploded within 48 hours of his diagnosis. It took my 3 more years to get diagnosed. started with doxy, biaxin 1 year ago. But have had a TERRIBLE difficulty tolerating anything. Until i started with Cowden herbs and detox in August.
Will I herx on the Enula and Crypto whether I have Babs or not?? or only if I have a strain of it?

Thank you again for your amazing help!
xCharlotte
Posted 1/6/2016 9:49 PM (GMT -5)

swede in LA said...
Will I herx on the Enula and Crypto whether I have Babs or not?? or only if I have a strain of it?

If you have a strain of Babs, you have Babs.

You stand a chance of herxing on Enula and Crypto if they are effective against whatever Babesia/Babesia-like infection you might have.

Whether you have a particular strain of Babs....or a Babesia-like infection, it makes sense to treat for Babesia if you herx on any herbs that are usually used to treat that particular infection.

That's exactly what LLMD's do with anti-malarials.

Oh, please, please, please....before you even consider adding an herb, please increase your detoxing and continue to increase it.

You need to tame your current herx and prepare your body for Babesia treatment.

Babesia parasites are larger than Lyme bacteria. This means bigger dead bug parts which means there is the potential for stronger herxes.

Maintaining an daily detoxing protocol that includes a variety of methods that support the body's various detoxification systems will help you immensely.

In fact, I hope you'll consider taking some of Buhner's recommended herbs for your specific symptoms. They really help.

If you've never treated for Babesia before, starting very low and going slow is really the only way to go.

This translates into starting 1 drop of one herb and holding for 4-7 days to make sure you can tolerate it before increasing. Wash, rinse, repeat until you've added all the herbs you're going to take.....and then slowly increase the doses of all the herbs.

There's more benefit to getting going on an entire protocol at low doses because the herbs act synergisticly with each other - they enhance the actions of each other. Yet another reason to go low and slow ;)

And, detox, detox, detox ;)

You may know that I transitioned to Buhner's Lyme, Bart and Babs protocols in August of last year. I got up to full doses of the Lyme herbs relatively quickly (I'd been treating that for almost a year by the time of the switch).

I only got up to full doses of the Babs and Bart herbs in mid-December....3 wks. ago

I went from the 90% I achieved on abx that was maintained for almost 6 months on the full Cowden protocol.....to 98%.

Low and slow obviously worked for me. I thank the members of this forum for teaching me that.
Posted 1/6/2016 10:20 PM (GMT -5)
Hi swede in LA!-

I am pretty sure that I have had Lyme and co-infections that went misdiagnosed for 27 years. When I was young, I had a rash on my chest, and the doctor said "that's probably ring worm". The rash went away with the cream that the doctor prescribed. But at the age of 10 I started with daily headache and sore stiff neck.

Through out the years, I have dealt with chronic fatigue, menstration irregularities, black outs (heart would race to 197 beats a minute), and a lot of GI issues (just to name a few).

I tested positive for Lyme in February 2015 and have been treating it with oral antibiotics.

The only improvements that I have gotten (and have stayed) are : When I urinate, I feel like I can finally empty my bladder. And my bowl movements are starting to look normal. These improved once I started A-Inflam herbal drops. I personally feel like it is getting some of the inflammation in my body down.

Please look into more ways of detoxing daily!

I am so sorry to hear about your husbands diagnosis! I personally think that the stress from his diagnosis brought out a lot of your symptoms.

I will pray for the both of you!! (((Hugs!)))

Post Edited (Little Bear (LB)) : 1/6/2016 8:40:34 PM (GMT-7)

Posted 1/6/2016 11:48 PM (GMT -5)
Hi Swede in LA!

I am sorry you are feeling so sick but don't lose hope. I am also under Dr J. care I did 7 months of IV antibiotics and it wasn't easy at all, but now after 15 months since I first started treatment I am feeling so much better.

I am still in treatment and most of the time I forget I have Lyme. For me the key was heavy detoxing that I still do. You should call the office and let them know how you feel, they have many detoxing methods that can help you.

Good luck Swede I hope you feel better soon.
Posted 1/7/2016 12:44 AM (GMT -5)
Hi Swede in LA. Sorry to hear about you being so sick. I think it's because you practically nuked all the Lyme with all that rocephin?

I am no doctor but new research suggests for Lyme... Rocephin is better taken 4 days on 3 days off. You might want to give yourself more off time and focus on detoxing those days and letting the Lyme start to regrow, when it does hit it again. Lots of people beat the Lyme with pulsing. Just a thought for you. I think going 2 months straight would be pretty harsh... Possibly even less effective as pulsing would be far more effective based on current research.
Posted 1/7/2016 12:49 AM (GMT -5)
Also you don't have to lose hope... Cut back on your abx and as trav would say lol detox detox detox. Maybe even just stop for 1-2 weeks. I think non-stop IV rocephin is too much. All the people that got well with it pulsed it too by the way. You need a break from it for a few weeks I would think.

Also I am mostly well, I live a relatively normal life. I am just still treating it but I am mostly normal like about 95% well. The wellness of the people on the forums here really does greatly vary... There are people who are well, people who are somewhat well just with some minor issues ... It really does vary.
Posted 1/7/2016 2:32 AM (GMT -5)
Swede in LA,

I would like too tell you that I am sorry that you feel not well and have a rough time, hearing always of people who do not get better really does not help at the moment.

I am from Eastern Europe i know several people who got better in my country and they are not treated with long term iv-s as far as we have no picc lines to access.

One lady that I personally know treats for seven years, but she takes 6-12 weeks of treatment with breaks.Now she does 2 treatments per year and she is fully functional:very good nurse, doing night shifts, having nice holidays with family, parties, and so on.She does treatment to avoid relapses, of course every Dr. with his own concepts.
And I followed Lymebabes story, she is not on the forum but I am almost sure she is ok.

Also I have been in a very bad place and got to 85-90% better, unfortunately did not get enough treatment and now am under treatment, got since may from 10-20% functional(basically bedridden , going to bath and kitchen and breathing!!!) to 60% functional at the moment.Have still many symptoms, but can work, take care of my daughter, even venture to the mall to shop(would nor recommend if not necessary).What I found is that detox, MCAD treatment, when you get a bit functional-program some activities that you focus on, e. g. household small chores, of course treatment with anti-inflammatory herbs, the dry brushing, baths and exercise are extremely important( as far as you achieve a state that you can do them).

Also, extremely important in this sickness is mental attitude and also avoiding stressful situations, persons until you get much better.And please, do not read the horror stories on the net.Stay here and keep in touch with the nice , knowledgeable people here.

Also, as I see it, people who get well treat all the 3 main confections in the same time, regardless if having sympthoms.Maybe consider treating this way with your LLMD, like you said introducing maybe herbs for babesia.I think there is no magic Dr., but a Dr. that works with you and understands your herxing and limitations in undergoing treatment.

I wish you all the best, Ioana.
Posted 1/7/2016 11:45 AM (GMT -5)
And the reason why you don't see success stories on these boards? As people start to feel better, it's very natural for them to just walk away from these boards. Their life gets busy and they intend to post, but life is busy and full and happy again. I don't believe most intend to not post, life just moves on for them. I'm an odd ball is all!! :-)

As CD said, you really need to concentrate on your detoxing though. I was an abx failure - mainly because no one understood how important detoxing was possibly!! I did eventually heal with herbs only, but it was only because I had been detoxing very, very heavily for a long time after my abx failure.

You need to get as many different detox pathways working as you can. This is really important because as you kill the bacteria remember, it puts off toxins. If those toxins can't get moved out of the body quickly, then they back up and cause more and more issues. This site has a lot of really great detoxing suggestions - although I would encourage you to either ask on here or find someone that knows which ones are the best ones to start with. For example, Epsom salt full body baths while effective, can create it's own herx.
www.tiredoflyme.com/detox-methods.html

and hang in there!! It's a long, hard road, but we are here to help you through!! You are not alone in this!
Posted 1/7/2016 4:54 PM (GMT -5)
i love you guys - what an amazing community of people. I am - was! - the typical A-type, working all the time, stressed, pushing myself, and never asked anyone for help with anything.
It took me many months to reach out on this forum. I have been treating for a year.
CD i am going to add babesia herbs. I was sweating and hot last night and the muscle contractions are terrible, my jaw muscles are like rocks.
Little Bear thank you for you kind words. My husband passed after 15 horrible months. you have been treating for almost a year with oral abx and the only improvement is that you can empty your bladder fully?
it is so confusing and disheartening to hear of these long treatment periods without improvement. But Cd and others have posted success stories, so there is hope. unfortunately I have not seen any success stories with people who have had lyme for 10+ years before starting treatment..:(
csmm - you are being treated by Dr. J in Washington? Would you please send me an email with your treatment protocol? I cant travel - the head pressure turns into seizures -but i have followed dr J and would really appreciate to know how he is treating you. So happy to hear you are feeling better.
LymePickle - i have stepped back my Rocephin to Tuesd/Thursd this week and may do that for another week, while I do FIR sauna, detox, detox... I do detox but it doesnt seem to help - Pinella, burbur, Parsley, Pekana (itres, renelex) Cyflacalm, ToxEase, Curcumin, lemon water...
Iona - where do you live? I am Swedish and Sweden is one of the worst countries to have lyme. I live in LA. Do you get antibiotics, just not with a picc line?
Hi Traveler - thank god for you odd balls ;) who stay on when you get better! Would you please take a look at the detox I am doing? I dont know what else to do, as i cant do Epsom baths (sulphur). Add a binder like charcoal or pectin?
Thank you all again, i dont know what i would do without your kind support
xCharlotte
Posted 1/7/2016 5:07 PM (GMT -5)
Charlotte - Traveler is one who has healed after having the infection for 10+ years (more like 40 years) - and on herbals.
I email a lady who lives a few hours away from me...and she had her infection more than 10 years...and she has been treating for over 2 years now....and is almost better...she has two symptoms left...and they're not interfering with her living a full life.

There really are lots of people who have healed even with long-standing infections....

Regarding detox -Activated charcoal is a good binder. You need to take it a few hours away from food, supplements, meds, and anything else that you don't want flushed out with the toxins.

you could also buy a brush and do the dry brushing before your shower.

drink lots of water - squeeze some fresh lemon juice into some of the glasses.

Take Alka seltzer gold.

That's a few ideas.

Here is a link to a good website with more detoxing ideas:

www.tiredoflyme.com/detox-methods.html
Posted 1/7/2016 5:26 PM (GMT -5)

swede in LA said...
CD i am going to add babesia herbs. I was sweating and hot last night and the muscle contractions are terrible, my jaw muscles are like rocks.

Hon

I'm very, very sorry about your husband's passing. I can't imagine how tough those 15 months were nor how difficult it must be for you to be fighting these infections right now. We're here for you.

Please do not consider adding anything until you get your current herx under control. You could be at risk of a massive herx that might land you in the hospital.

Slow and steady wins the race. Things will start to click for you but, you need to get those detox pathways open and keep them open.

I understand that you're doing a lot for detox.....are you doing those things daily?

How about Alka Seltzer Gold twice/daily? While I took it at times to help with herxing on abx, I started taking it twice daily to stay ahead of herxing on Buhner's herbs.

Have you tried dry skin brushing? I'm hooked on it and plan on doing it for the rest of my life, if able. I find it invigorating and relaxing at the same time.

The site we continue to link for detoxing suggestions has, by far, the most comprehensive list I've seen. Please review it again and add a few things and be sure to do them daily....and continue to add to your detoxing regimen.

It's only been the past month or so that I'm not doing as many things for detox as I did in my earlier days because I'm not really herxing that much any more (thank goodness).

However, I still take a bunch of supplements that help with detox, continue with the dry skin brushing and a cold rinse at the end of my shower and I exercise. I was always a big water drinker.

I'm just not taking Alka Seltzer Gold twice/daily any more and cut back on the Pinella and Burbur I was taking 3 times/day. And, I no longer take activated charcoal that I regretted not starting sooner.

No matter what, you need to get yourself feeling better before you start any new treatment...unless it's supportive herbs. Even then, you need to slowly titrate the doses because there is always the potential for a herx.

Treating these infections is a marathon, not a race. I believe everyone has the potential to heal but treatment requires a patient patient.....a very patient patient.
Posted 1/7/2016 5:52 PM (GMT -5)
Hi swede inLA!-

I am so sorry to hear about the passing of your husband.

You and your family are in my thoughts and prayers.

Sending you many many (((hugs!)))
Posted 1/7/2016 6:22 PM (GMT -5)
Hi swede in LA!-

I have had different health issues most of my life. When I started oral antibiotics (Doxycycline) for 1 month, this is when I got so sick.

This is when a lot of my symptoms from the past came back daily and a lot of new symptoms. It was like a dam broke and all the bacteria flooded my body. I didn't know about detoxing back then.

Lyme disease and co-infections are horrible! I never thought that it was possible to have some of these symptoms.

Have you looked into IV Glutathione? I personally don't know much about all of the IV meds. , but I have read about other people trying it. Maybe this would help?

Have you been tested for any gene mutations (MTHFR)? Gene mutations can make it very hard for your body to properly detox.

Best Wishes!
Posted 8/27/2016 7:44 PM (GMT -5)

When I first got ill in 1992 and was put on iv steroids for a misdiagnosed disease when I was actually was infected with lyme. My neurological symptoms got 1000X worse. I could not eat regular food without stabbing pain in the nerve roots of my teeth. This went on for years. How I have put up with all this misery for so long I am starting to wonder. In addition to teeth pain I had great difficulty swallowing, would jump from noise and sense of smell was so acute I could smell things that nobody else could smell. The myoclonus which is jerking of arms and legs without control also got severe with those darn steroids. The candida infection even before antibiotics was so severe I would have to scrape my tongue daily. When I finally was correctly diagnosed with Lyme the drug diflucan got me out of a hospital bed and started to be able to eat again. If you notice a thick whitish coating on your tongue ask your doctor about antifungals. It really helped me. I wish the antibiotics were as quickly effective as the diflucan.
I am now on a herbal protocol and have had a terrible day today. I had to drive from New Jersey to Long island and the profuse sweating and being off balance was a nightmare. I may have to back off this protocol for a day or two. I don't really know if this protocol is making me sick or killing lyme with bad herxes. I am praying I sleep tonight because this is the only relief I get from this disease. Everyone says I look great. I can see when Im not well my eyes are sunken into my sockets and I am pale underneath my summer tan. I have friends that have had quadruple bypasses and get better, friends with diabetes doing great, friends who have beat cancer doing great and all I do is suffer. I know the only thing keeping me going is my family.
Be well and I have given up praying and having people praying over me. I just need a darn cure or something to ease bone nerve and joint pain. The severe nerve pain in the teeth is now a random pain at maybe 3-4 days a month. I find it hard to laugh any more even though they say it is good therapy. I am 60 now and don't know how much more I can take of this dreaded disease. Sorry to be so gloomy but thats just the way it is.
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