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Posted 8/16/2016 8:08 AM (GMT -5)
I am about to end 4 weeks of doxy. Forum says to continue until symptom free. Dr. says wait 2 mos to see if symptom free. What to do? Symptom free seems so evasive. Will I just wake up and it's over? Do symptoms lessen gradually. Of course I know everyone is individual.
Posted 8/16/2016 8:39 AM (GMT -5)
We are symptom free but continue to use herbs, mushrooms, minerals, vitamins, probiotics and nutrition to support immune response, detoxification and the body in general.

K finished with antibiotics 3 years ago but was still symptomatic at that time. For that reason we continued with Buhner's herbal bartonella and babesia protocols.

I love this site. This woman used and continues to use many of the protocols we ourselves (my 14 yo daughter and myself) found to be extremely helpful:

http://realfoodrebel.com/

Antibiotics can be useful, but the bacteria are not entirely to blame. In the end it is our body's dysfunction that allows bacteria to proliferate in the first place.

These bacteria/protozoa are ubiquitous. Many people carry infections but are asymptomatic because for some reason their immune response is capable of holding the bacteria in check. Just as your own proper immune response keeps the chicken pox virus from re-emerging as shingles (until the point when it becomes incapable and shingles develops). Or just as those who's immune systems are capable of terminating cancer cells that sometimes emerge will not develop cancer (but those who's systems can't will allow cancer to develop).

The terrain of the body is so much more important than the presence of any invading bacteria. If the terrain is functioning optimally it will be hard to compromise.

So work on your terrain.

Make sure your gut bacteria are healthy (they form the basis of your immune system and produce many of your neurotransmittors).

Make sure your tissues are built from the proper nutrients (the basic premis of the Terry Wahl's diet).

Make sure your detoxification pathways are functioning properly and you are not storing toxins (not an easy thing to do in this age of pesticides and other environmental contaminants).

Make sure you are taking time to relax because stress can supress immune response.

I know it sounds crazy, but I firmly believe that these bacterial/parasitic infections are providing a service. They are pointing us back to the way we as people should be living. When we get back to the basics and support our bodies we can become healthy again.
Posted 8/16/2016 8:41 AM (GMT -5)
Lisaji

Welcome to out forum! It is advisable to treat two months beyond "symptom free". I just wouldn't want to chance it.

Symptoms generally decrease very gradually and can be very evasive. Which is why its wise to continue treatment two months beyond the last symptom.

Were you diagnosed with any other infections?
Posted 8/16/2016 11:17 AM (GMT -5)

Lisaji said...
I am about to end 4 weeks of doxy. Forum says to continue until symptom free. Dr. says wait 2 mos to see if symptom free. What to do? Symptom free seems so evasive. Will I just wake up and it's over? Do symptoms lessen gradually. Of course I know everyone is individual.


So, it sounds like you still have symptoms....

The only time 4 weeks is recommended is when you have a tick bite...with no symptoms:


Tick bite and bulls-eye rash - treat until sign/symptom free for one month (minimum 6 weeks treatment)

Early disseminated (milder symptoms for less than a year) - treat until no active disease for 4-8 weeks (typically 4-6 months)

This is from the ILADS Guidelines (2008)

www.lymenet.org/BurrGuide200810.pdf
Posted 8/16/2016 11:21 AM (GMT -5)

rowingmom said...


I know it sounds crazy, but I firmly believe that these bacterial/parasitic infections are providing a service. They are pointing us back to the way we as people should be living. When we get back to the basics and support our bodies we can become healthy again.

This is EXACTLY how I experience the infection - thanks for putting words to it rowing mom.

I know Buhner suggests continue with herbs for 3 months after symptoms let up (if I am remembering correctly). It would make sense to me, after abx, to transition to the type of protocol rowingmom suggests, and to integrate herbal support.

Good luck! Happy healing.
Posted 8/16/2016 12:40 PM (GMT -5)

Questing (multifacetedme) said...

rowingmom said...


I know it sounds crazy, but I firmly believe that these bacterial/parasitic infections are providing a service. They are pointing us back to the way we as people should be living. When we get back to the basics and support our bodies we can become healthy again.

This is EXACTLY how I experience the infection - thanks for putting words to it rowing mom.
.

Agreed. I think if you take lyme as "the enemy" to be bombarded with massive amounts of antibiotics without looking inward and asking what you're contributing to the mess you're missing the point of the illness. It is your relationship with the world that determines health
Posted 8/16/2016 6:26 PM (GMT -5)
Treat treat hard ..i dont wanna be friends with these bugs anymore .they are not nice they dont play fair and immune sx cant keep on it forever if at all...i have seen spiroketes come out of white blood cell....

so coffee alliviates the sx of fatigue but are you still tired? So knotweed alliviates inflammation but is the cause still there?

get a microscope ..do a dna culture test...be sure ..doxy makes more cystic borellia

Post Edited (bluelyme) : 8/16/2016 5:33:22 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 8/16/2016 7:48 PM (GMT -5)
not all stories follow this trend. according to all tests i'm a picture of perfect health, except i can't shake the bug symptoms and new ones have cropped up almost 2 years into treatment. the point is there isn't a strong correlation between doing everything right to optimize your immune system and lowering/eliminating the bugs but we must do all we can to help because no one really knows the end state unless you try all the things to get yourself to an optimal state of health.
Posted 8/17/2016 12:24 AM (GMT -5)
I agree with BlueLyme. Hit it hard and early. I also have to disagree with the 'terrain' theory too. Although I haven't yet had success eradicating the bugs, I feel this is integral and the idea is of symbyosis with a bacteria that destroys neurons is kind of foolish in my opinion. Honestly I think this idea of being in balance with nature is being taken too far. Every disease is 'natural.' Arsenic and many other poisons are natural, but they don't have any place in a healthy human body and certainly not something you want to 'be in balance with'. These are severely destructive infections that have the potential to take down even the strongest and most athletic. In fact if you read enough personal stories you will see that many of the people who get these diseases were marathon runners, outdoorsmen and serious athletes, some professional, and it's hard to get a cleaner terrain than that. I had the healthiest 'terrain' possible before becoming ill. I ate a very clean fully organic diet, supplemented with natural vitamins and fish/flax/borage oil and worked out 3 hrs a day 4-5 times a week, on top of walking 3-5 miles per day. I was a healthnut. Then after being bitten by numerous ticks, 5 weeks later the bottom fell out and this wasn't a gradual decline into sickness, this was basically overnight that I went from the picture of health to practically debilitated and have remained there since. So it is obvious to me even with a healthy 'terrain' these tick diseases can do very serious damage.

Hope that mainstream allopathic medicine can help you the first time around so you don't have to desperately experiment with homeopathy, rife, obscure and strange dietary suggestions and other forms of questionable therapy that at a certain point becomes nothing less than complete guesswork and eventually quackery. People only resort to these methods out of desperation and necessity after they have been failed by mainstream medicine, and while there are people who truly find success doing some of these things, it's not a position you want to find yourself in, trust me.

If I were you I would push it to 8-10 weeks and possibly 12. The more you can treat early the better. I would personally take a high dose for a long time if this is your first time treating. This is a serious infectious disease that, despite what 'realfoodrebel' and others may claim, you simply cannot diet your way out of no matter how many special lyme smoothies you drink.


Hit it hard and early and hope that you are part of the majority of people who take a few weeks of ABX and are able to go on with their lives. Once it becomes chronic (6-8 months in) you are in for a world of shhitt and theres no other way to describe it.
Posted 8/17/2016 8:58 AM (GMT -5)
The thing is, we can't ever even know how much of the bacteria we still have inside of us -even when we are symptom free. We don't have any tests that can show if we have the Lyme bacteria still or not.

So, in lieu of testing what do we have to follow? Symptoms. We have to treat until we have gone 2 months symptom free. Why 2 months? Because the bacteria replicates inside of us every 4 - 6 weeks, so it's assumed that if we treat past one replication cycle, then we have made it to a point where our bodies can now keep the bacteria under control - but is that true?

It is for many, but some will still relapse. The relapse can be caused by stress, by being infected yet again, or from getting sick. It's all about the amount of combined stress on the body - or we never really healed in the first place.

Diet, lifestyle (lowered stress) and other things can definitely work to keep the body as stress free as possible, but I don't believe anyone here really believes that diet alone can control the bacteria - that's not the point. The point is to keep the stress on the body low - and to continue to do things like detoxing and taking certain herbs and precautions to help further.

Many get infected and those that treat right away usually have good success, but for some, there are underlying issues that will contribute to keeping the infection going. Treatment alone will not resolve these issues. Just to clear the infection - leaving those issues that contributed to keeping us ill will still be there, so it becomes very easy for the body to not function well enough to completely heal, leaving the opportunistic bacteria/viruses and other organisms in our body to take full advantage of the 'void' we create when "just" treating the infections and not working on the 'landscape' that allowed us to get sick and stay sick to begin with. This has been proven many times over.
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