Understanding the Immune System

Hello everyone, it's been a while. I just have this thought on my mind that I am trying to figure out, and was hoping someone could help, and plus my story will help give some of you hope as well, bc i see there are alot of newbies on the forum!

As of now, I can say for sure that I have officially recovered from lyme. Its normal to be very suspicious of possibly being in my situation, bc after being so sick, it is hard to imagine that one can truly reach the 100% mark. Well I have for sure - so my story is a successful one!

I can finally prove it to myself because the day after Christmas, my husband and I both got super sick. I got like a headcold that turned into a sinus like infection. Tons of sneezing, sniffling, congestion body aches, etc. My husband's developed into bronchitis, and he had to take antibiotics. I was so resistant to taking them. I haven't taken them since March of 2016 and that was bc of an infection I got from a cut on my skin, and I am trying to make it at least a year without them, bc I developed terrible Candida after my antibiotic lyme treatment.

So anyway, getting back. I pumped myself with vitamin c, elderberry syrup, echinacea, mycopheron drops, and adp oil of oregano. In 7 days I was fine. I was so happy, you have no idea. What is interesting to note here is that over the course of time, as i have tried to treat candida, I have become less and less tolerant to herbs. I couldn't tolerate oil of oregano back in Sept when I tried to take it - got a massive headache from it. Many of you would say, that's a herx! But I know its not - here is why -

When I was sick after Christmas, I took Oil of oregano twice a day for 5 days while I had the symptoms. No headache. As soon as I was better, I figured, well you know how you take antibiotics beyond the point of when you get better, let me continue the oregano just to cover the bases. That didn't work bc I started getting headaches. That's bc I was better and didn't need it anymore. This is just a side note, more of a fyi note!

Just this past week 4 out of 5 of us got the flu. It was darn AWEFUL. I was throwing up, had diarrhea, fever, joint pain, etc.

Not that I was happy about it, but seriously, I haven't been sick like this in 5 years, and it was 3 years ago I had lyme. So it was a victory in it of itself. I lived thru it, and I am ready to go back to the gym tmrw!! I have so much more to say about this, but if I keep going, I will be too far away from the point of this message, so I will write a separate thread more on my success later on in the week.

so here it goes, you know how they say when you have chronic lyme, you never get regular sick? Well, I understand that in the sense that it's bc your immune system is too busy trying to fight off lyme that it doesn't have the "time or energy" to fight off other illnesses. Am I right? Then why is it that when people get initially sick with lyme it is all flulike symptoms and such? Is it bc it is in the early stages? (This is what happened to me, when I first got lyme and didn't know it I kept on getting sick and no matter what antibiotic I took, as soon as it was out of my system I got sick again), and then once it became "disseminated" the sickness kinda ended and I started getting systemic symptoms like muscle weakness and nerve pain.

Second question - why is it that kids seem to get sick alot when they have lyme? Is it bc their immune systems are stronger and they are able to fight lyme and regular illnesses? But I still don't understand this. Bc when I read about kids with chronic lyme they tend to get sick constantly and miss alot of school.

Also - final comparison:

person #1 - gets sick every other week. this is a person that is chronically sick. I would say well if they are always sick then their immune system is working. But I used to say, well if they are getting sick so much its bc they have a weak immune system. Now I am wondering - is this person like a kid who has lyme - that there is an underlying problem (not necessarily lyme), that is causing their immune system to overreact and they are getting sick more often than usual?

Finally - take an athletic person like a gym trainer - some of these people NEVER get sick. Why?? People go in and out of the gym, sweat everywhere, the flu is going around, and even one of the other trainers got the flu, but this guy that is one of the other trainers there NEVER gets anything! he hasn't been sick in years - how can that be? I am guessing its bc his immune system is so strong that it just fights it off like its nothing and he has no symptoms?

You are all probably wondering why I even care about this - its bc i am analyzing my daughter's situation very carefully. She is 13 and had lyme (like the rest of us - my entire family got it back in 2013) - and I am pretty darn sure she is ok now. She had issues, and I treated her with some of Buhner's herbs, and she honestly seems perfectly fine now. But she didn't get the flu, and this baffles me.

She's made a complete turnaround since I gave her Cat's claw and JKW for almost a year. I tried other herbs on his protocol, but she didn't react well. She seemed to settle down nicely on only these 2. Her grades went up, her mood is better, she is more alert, and most of all, she stopped getting strept. I was suspicious that the herbs were causing her to get strept. So after she got strept 4 times in 5 months, I stopped the herbs. Then I put her on vitamins and continued the probiotics. What was weird was, back in sept, her throat was hurting again and she was a little fatigued, so I went in and got the strept test, which came back positive, but what was really weird was her flu test came back positive too, and she most definitely did not feel like she had the flu.

So either the herbs just kept her immune system so strong that she didn't really have any symptoms, or what else could it be? And my guess is maybe she was lucky in that at that time, she was exposed to the same strain we were just sick with and so she was immune?

i tried to keep this short, but i type very fast and I have alot on my mind, so thank you to those who took the time to read and take the time to respond!!!

hey ive been trying to figure this one out myself, why i dont get sick anymore it's been 4-5 years since ive had a cold or the flu, when everyone around me get's it twice a year, in relevance to that i have been diagnosed with the Auto-immune disease Lupus, which should make me more susceptible, hope that you can figure this out for your daughter good luck

"So here it goes, you know how they say when you have chronic lyme, you never get regular sick? Well, I understand that in the sense that it's bc your immune system is too busy trying to fight off lyme that it doesn't have the "time or energy" to fight off other illnesses. Am I right? Then why is it that when people get initially sick with lyme it is all flulike symptoms and such? Is it bc it is in the early stages? (This is what happened to me, when I first got lyme and didn't know it I kept on getting sick and no matter what antibiotic I took, as soon as it was out of my system I got sick again), and then once it became "disseminated" the sickness kinda ended and I started getting systemic symptoms like muscle weakness and nerve pain."

Basically, yes, you are correct. It's in the early stages and the body is trying to fight it - so it produces those symptoms. My hubby had Lyme only and went through this. Funny thing about it was, when he realized that I had lived like this for most of my life - his eyes got super wide! LOL! He was amazed that I lived like that for years on end. It was a bit of a wake up call for him. LOL.

"Second question - why is it that kids seem to get sick alot when they have lyme? Is it bc their immune systems are stronger and they are able to fight lyme and regular illnesses? But I still don't understand this. Bc when I read about kids with chronic lyme they tend to get sick constantly and miss alot of school."

Generally, yes. When I was a kid sick with these infections, it didn't stop tonsillitis, pink eye, upper respiratory infections and such from happening - I actually had them so much that I missed a ton of school and nearly got held back 2 different years. A child's immune system is supposed to be better able to handle sickness though, so it's an attempt by the immune system to handle the initial infection, but fails to control it well, so it 'leads' into a secondary infection - because the first infection (Lyme and company) is keeping the immune system "too busy". At least that's what I understand. Still learning more about this aspect though.

"person #1 - gets sick every other week. this is a person that is chronically sick. I would say well if they are always sick then their immune system is working. But I used to say, well if they are getting sick so much its bc they have a weak immune system. Now I am wondering - is this person like a kid who has lyme - that there is an underlying problem (not necessarily lyme), that is causing their immune system to overreact and they are getting sick more often than usual?"

I would basically agree with this - and think I alluded to it above?

"Finally - take an athletic person like a gym trainer - some of these people NEVER get sick. Why?? People go in and out of the gym, sweat everywhere, the flu is going around, and even one of the other trainers got the flu, but this guy that is one of the other trainers there NEVER gets anything! he hasn't been sick in years - how can that be? I am guessing its bc his immune system is so strong that it just fights it off like its nothing and he has no symptoms?"
Well, considering we have many members here that were very athletic previous to having Lyme, I would say that the person does have a strong immune system, but not necessarily because they have a good work out routine. It depends on more than just that, but if they have a strong immune system, are taking good care of their body (working out/getting plenty of exercise), eating good, and such - then they have a much smaller chance of getting sick to begin with, and so, have a much lower chance of having Lyme disease take over their life - but doesn't stop them from getting a Lyme infection, it's just that their immune system can just take care of the infection on it's own - quickly in the beginning when it can be eradicated from the body.

"So either the herbs just kept her immune system so strong that she didn't really have any symptoms, or what else could it be? And my guess is maybe she was lucky in that at that time, she was exposed to the same strain we were just sick with and so she was immune?"
I would say this is partly true. The herbs kept her from having many symptoms, but it likely wasn't enough for lowering her bacterial load sufficiently from Lyme and company. Not everyone tolerates the herbs, and so she may need a different approach - but if she's not having symptoms, I would carefully watch her, particularly during and after times of stress. This is when symptoms should be most apparent - if she still has the infection(s).

The other side of this is the herbs you did give her, were enough to support her immune system enough for it to take care of the infections - but, I would be cautious with this. Being complacent would be the worst thing for helping to make sure she is healed.

I wish there were more straight forward answers to these questions!!! But, I have not seen that there are easier answers.

How I discovered I no longer needed herbs was this.... I had been symptom free for over 2 months and was taking the same herbs and dosages to "ensure" I was well.

One day I woke up and I was so sick to my stomach. I could not keep anything down. Very achy. Now I know that a lot of people get flu like symptoms when they get lyme but I did not. So here I was fine for over 2 months and now I had flu like symptoms. I had not been exposed to anything and it was not a virus or illness feeling I was having.

It was hubby that suggested I quit the herbs and see what happened. So I did and the next day I was well.....

So in my case my body said "that's enough herbs, thank you."

It is almost one year and I do get "feelings" that lyme is there and I just do a dose of herbs and I can keep it at bay. I have always known my body, but lyme just REALLY made me know my body.

There are many factors associated with immune health and those particular factors heavily influence how infection manifests in an individual....or doesn't.

That's what makes the difference between those who are asymptomatically infected, those infected but with mild symptoms or those infected and suffering horribly with symptoms.

The newly released book: "Unlocking Lyme" by Dr. Rawls who healed himself from Lyme explains this in detail.

He writes about 7 categories of "system disruptors" that play a role in chronic illness. I'm sure they are familiar to everyone: unnatural food, toxin overload, chronic emotional stress, physical stress, energy stress, oxidative stress, microbiome imbalance.

Each of us comes into this mess from a different place. Our bodies are different as are our environments (both physical and mental). Because the bugs morph so readily, we each also have our own unique infection picture.

Throw in any system disruptors and I think you can understand how everyone responds differently to infection.

My symptoms have always been mild yet it's taken awhile to heal. I recognize that the succession of extreme life events I've faced since the tick bites coupled with my pre-Lyme thyroid disease really impacted my healing timeline....those system disruptors ;)

While I just started reading Dr. Rawl's book, I already know it is my #1 book recommendation out of the easily 20 books I've read about Lyme. He gets it.

Do Lyme patients not get colds because the immune system is working overtime on the Lyme?

Or is it because the Lyme has turned off the immune system to an extent, preventing any sort of response to germs?

This has been debated several times in the year or so I've been on this forum, and there's never been a clear answer I don't think.

I am one of "those people" who rarely gets sick....no colds, no flu, no tummy bugs. The various doctors I've seen throughout my life credited my daily exercise for this. Exercise increases the body's production of endorphins which are a vital part of immune health.

However, when I was in my 20's and 30's and allowed myself to get run down from working/partying too hard, it was easier for me to get sick.

Now that I'm older and have been dealing with thyroid disease for the past 10 years, I work hard to maintain the thyroid levels that keep me feeling great. Otherwise, I develop thyroid symptoms along with reduced immunity.

We all know that Lyme can affect the thyroid and it did mine. Despite monthly thyroid labs/dose adjustments, I had a rough time keeping my thyroid levels in the right place for myself and caught 2 mild colds last winter as well as a mild case of the flu (first time in 25 years). This winter is much different thank goodness.

I think those "system disruptors" Dr. Rawls writes about are the things that can make a different in overall health....with or without Lyme in the picture.

Having Lyme is not a preventative from getting something else.

Otherwise no one would get viruses like Shingles, EBV, mono, etc. colds are viruses.

I don't believe it would keep someone from another bacterial infection either. I believe I had Lyme 7-8 years before getting RMSF. I've been tested pos. for an E.-coli infection while having all these tick diseases. I and others have had food poisoning while having Lyme.

I believe the immune function is a part of the hows and why's we succumb to different illnesses, but I don't think in the way spoken here.

Wasn't there a time when Lyme was NOT considered an Immunosuppressent?

wow, thanks for everyone's responses so far!!

astroman - i am doing whole 30/60 too! although i am not 100% I am close to it. cut out all dairy, alcohol, most grains and sugars. Gotta cheat now and again =) LMK how it goes!

I overindulged starting with Thanksgiving and into Christmas - so I felt the inflammation building. When I eat poorly for too long, I start getting some symptoms, and I think it just the inflammatory foods kicking up the immune system - bc i know i am not sick with lyme. I started the diet 12 days ago - and I feel awesome, minus the flu i got last week. LOL

I exercise hard - never exercised this hard even before lyme. I do an hr of weight lifting/aerobics about 4 times a week. This is what i think is keeping me strong and preventing " chronic lyme from getting the best of me. Of course i couldn't do this back when i was sick, but i slowly worked up to this point.

no one can compare themselves to anyone else given the unique profile of an individual, what pathogens they carry, their overall health, age, gender, etc. etc. an example is my wife hardly ever sick in her life and when she did it would pass in less than 24 hours. rock solid "immune function" eats super healthy exercised all the time etc. until she was introduced to Mr. Lyme. she's an utter mess 8 months later and no signs of getting better.

its amazing how this little bugger can turn one's world upside down and for so long.