More questions - cont. from infectious disease thread

Thank you everyone, PeteZa, traveler, July, creative, Girlie, et al, for humoring me on my questions about all of this. I really appreciate your support.

My most bothersome symptoms in descending order are: debilitating fatigue, insomnia, agitation / wired. I'd call it anxiety but it feels organic in origin. Sure, I've had anxiety before, like the night before I took my comprehensive exams for my degree but this is different. It's a gnawing sensation. That's the best I can describe it. If I wasn't so fatigued, I could manage it with exercise but that just makes everything worse. I feel trapped.
Does that symptom cluster indicate which infection is dominant? (see my signature)

In the old thread creative asked (sorry if tmi)
"Black Jack Davey - How many drops of A-bab? Maybe your dose is too high?"

I started too fast with the a-Bab and backed down. I could feel it at 1/2 drop but just tolerable. After 7 days at 1/2 drop however, the agitation intensified, brain fog worsened, sleep worsened. Clearly a herx. A week ago today, I saw my naturopath and he recommended that we discontinue the a-Bab. He doesn't want me uncomfortable.

I've been waiting to start a new formula he gave me and I will start today. He said it's well tolerated even by children. I can't find much of anything about it in my searching. It's "kw Botanicals" Lyme Glycerine formula. Ingredient list is: fraxinus, uncaria, rhodiola, smilax, artemisia, gentiana, bupleurum, usnea, quassia, mahonia, althaea, paeonia, Gardenia, glycrrhiza, anemone. I'm spozed to take 2 droppers full 2x/day. He said start at 1/2 dropper but maybe I should do even less?

As for my herxheimer reactions what do you make of this? While on doxycycline 200 MG 2x/day, artemesinin 400mg 1x/day, herx reactions were minimal. I actually started feeling a bit better. Introduction of the a-Bab made symptoms worse. What I can't understand, is how could a die off and herx begin 10 minutes after taking the formula?

More questions:, is it safer to Hit bart with abx since it supposedly doesn't release toxins during die off?

It seems like some llmd's want to spend some time preparing you for antimicrobial treatment before launching in. He wants to get you more comfortable first so that antimicrobial tx won't be as gnarly. The guy I'm considering switching to does that. He's the 2nd doc in this interesting article :
http://www.townsendletter.com/July2014/lymeneuro0714.html
Has anyone here found success with that approach?

My free testosterone is low, though total testosterone is in range. Maybe bhrt would be helpful? I realize most of y'all are females, but has anyone found success using bioidentical hormones?

I'm doing daily epsom baths with peroxide, hydrating with lemon water, and a tsp of acv daily. Gonna try another coffee enema today. Do any of you do those? If so how often? I sporadically use byron white detox 2, a powder formula with clay and herbs.

I've been real sick since September. In October, my ND started treatment assuming I had cfs. Before we knew it was Lyme & Co, I'd done 6 iv vitamin c Meyers cocktail treatments, cleaned up my diet to eliminate all processed foods, sugar. Taking a ton of supplements, including methyl b12, and b6, nac, carnitine, etc. I've been trying like heck to normalize my sleep but that remains frustrating. All habits that carry over to lymeco therapy. Sleep remains inconsistent. My comfort level would increase exponentially if I could get back to even 7 hours a night consistently. When I get a good night sleep I'm thrilled and hopeful I've got the problem solved only to be met with rebound insomnia.

Have any of the buhner herbs helped anyone with stubborn insomnia?

Best Regards,
David

I agree with Girlie, when you start the new herbs, start lower than the doctor recommended. Maybe even 5 drops might be too much.... It is all trial and error.

Your anxiety feeling is exactly a lyme symptom. I had it and now my husband has it. You just feel like you have to do something or you will literally crawl out of your skin.

I generally would take Kava tea and feel better. Hubby goes outside and works in the yard and feels better. I have to say that sitting around doing nothing, I sure felt the anxiety more. If I concentrated on something, I did better. But again, this for both of us was trial and error. We had to figure out what alleviated the symptom.

Sleep is not easy with lyme for some people. I resorted to a transistor type radio (size wise) with an ear plug and when I could not sleep, I listened to talk radio at night. It is pretty boring and I would fall back to sleep. Hubby takes all kinds of herbs, including passionflower tincture and sprays lavender on his pillow. He has a white noise machine now also. But sometimes he still can't sleep. He then goes to the kitchen and eats a spoonful of almond butter. He says it helps him. Again, he searched for his fix too.

Here is what Dr. Rawls says about bio-identical in reference menopause - "After menopause, bio-identical estrogen replacement (with progesterone) properly administered in small doses can be life altering (it requires a prescription from a licensed healthcare provider).

With reference to Andropause he says - " Treating low testosterone production related to poor health with a driving anabolic steroid (testosterone) that pushes the body even harder can be downright dangerous.

His reference there is to increased risk of stroke and heart attack.

he goes on to say - "Herbs that support optimal testicular function and ideal male muscle mass (women can benefit from these same herbs also) include epimedium and rhaponticum. Wait until your recovery is well progressed before using these herbs, however, as they can be stimulating."

Hope this is helpful.

It is pretty much Buhner's protocol but less extensive. And Rawls says 2 times a day is okay. I don't agree with that..... I like the idea of continued treatment.

But Black, I really love his book. He writes each paragraph in 2 sentences so it is super easy to read. I just wish he had an index at the end of the book because sometimes the contents pages do not give me a good point to start.

I highly recommend the book. He learned a lot from Buhner!

I already started my husband on Buhner's protocol so we are into that. He is doing really well, but it is lyme and symptoms can come and go.

Now we are dealing with 3 days of a great snow storm.... snowed in, as we call it.

We did super well... He went out and shoveled to relieve the anxiety and I just made chicken soup with lots of bone broth.

We have lived here for 28 years, so we know how to prepare for this stuff. Water, heat, shelter and food. Oh and each other to laugh with!

Black, how you doing? You know I am willing to help. But honestly, it is all trial and error as I said before.
But I am one heck of a cheerleader!! So anytime you feel you need me, give me a hollar!!

I had one heck of a cheerleader from our Moderator CD of this forum. I could not have made it without her. She kept me going and healing.

I miss her dearly but she is so busy now with all her family stuff....

Just re-read the section on anxiety and Rawls likes St. John's wort. Caution because it enhances liver enzymes and it can limit inhibition of normal sleep.

And Rhodiola is an adaptogenic herb with antidepressive properties. It also is anti-fatigue and immune modulating, another great herbal choice for chronic lyme disease...

This one did not work for me - too stimulating with the anti-fatigue. It worked for hubby though but he takes it early in the day.

Rawls also says CBD oil is good depression, anxiety and sleep. (Sounds like a bell ringer)

Post Edited (PeteZa) : 3/7/2017 10:18:05 AM (GMT-7)

Black Jack, lyme and all the co-omfections overlap in many symptoms. If you think you have babs and bart, I would be surprised if you did not have lyme. But, strange things I have seen.

Inching along is how we all heal..... no one has a fast track with lyme.

We are all the tortoise and that's exactly how we win! Slow and steady.

intheknowwatd.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/9z-comparison-lyme-disease-and-co-infections-symptom-chart-1.pdf

My co-infections are diagnosed with a naturopath who uses an EDS machine. She does it for all my LLMD's patients.

I use Pectosol C brand of MCP. I also use HM Chelate by Pure Encapsulations. I also try to sweat as much as possible via hot baths, exercise. I feel best that way.

I agree with PeteZa. It's very hard to know what is what. I thought my recent relapse was Babesia again, turns out it was Mycoplasma.

It's with the Electro Dermal Screening machine. It works by finding the energy blockages and then they match the energetic frequency with the pathogen. You hold a metal wand in your wet hand and she put a metal rod to the tips of your fingers. Each tip/section of the finger relates to a certain system in the body and it based on the accupuncture meridians in the body. There are also some spots on the toes that she checks but I can't remember what. I think muscles..

So, for example, my last visit, she scanned everything and saw a blockage in the nerves. Then she scans for different stuff. It came up Mucor and Mycoplasma. I've been taking her remedies. Pretty much feeling back to normal again!

It kind of interesting because a reading of 13 and up means your "clear" but that doesn't mean its gone from the body, just that the reading is so low, it's considered not harmful.

In the beginning, I was all 5s and 3s for Lyme, Bartonella, Babesia and all the funguses listed on my signature. I was a mess. Now, my readings for Lyme, etc are around 15. I think 18 is the highest.

PeteZa - Wow. Same here! It's like black magic how they find stuff. Last fall, I was so sleepy all the time and intuitively, it didn't feel like Lyme & co. Sure enough, I went for my scan and she found a cytomegalovirus. She said I probably just picked it up recently. Then she gave me some little homeopathic drops and it went away.

Just a disclaimer: She doesn't ever let me tell her about symptoms or problems before the scan. This is so that she is not prejudiced. It's pretty amazing stuff. I wish all Lyme patients had access to this procedure. Sure would save a lot of guessing!

Black Jack Davey - might have found some answers for you regarding anxiety. Its a toxin issue and here is an interesting link. http://biotoxinjourney.com/block-detox/

GABA is important because it calms down neuro-inflammation. Without GABA’s calming effect, sensitive patients can find it very difficult to stick to any treatment due to the excitatory states induced by excess Glutamate. Can you say intense anxiety for no apparent reason?

According to Dr. Martin Pall, high Glutamate levels are a result of toxic levels of pesticides, insecticides, mercury, biotoxins, hydrogen sulphide, and carbon monoxoide. These toxins over stimulate the Nitric Oxide (NO) and Peroxynitrite (ONOO) cycles. This in turn leads to excitatory states due to excesses of Glutamate. GABA is one way to quench this fire.

More specifically, Glutamate is an important and helpful excitatory brain neurotransmitter. It makes us sit up and pay attention. However, it’s known that when Nitric Oxide (NO) levels become too high, Glutamate and Peroxynitrite (ONOO) levels in the brain rise. Excessive levels of Glutamate and ONOO in turn lead to over sensitized Glutamate receptors called N-methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA).

NMDA Glutamate receptors are found in brain neurons, the spinal cord, and the peripheral nervous system. Not surprisingly, higher levels of Glutamate and over sensitized glutamate receptors cause a person to be more sensitive to pain, anxious, restless, and to have difficulty focusing. You can read more about this dynamic in Nitric Oxide, Superoxide & Peroxynitrite.