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Bartonella vs Cat Scratch Fever

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Posted 3/12/2017 11:09 AM (GMT -5)
So an interesting question came up in conversation with someone who's mother was bitten by a bug a few months ago and is suffering from odd symptoms that no doctor can diagnose. I suggested he have her do some research on Bartonella and Bartonella rashes (one of her symptoms) and see if she could find a LLD.

I was explaining how to spell it and that sometimes it was also called Cat Scratch Fever. So that got me to thinking, I'd had a boyfriend a long time ago who did have Cat Scratch Fever, but thinking back, he didn't really suffer from any of the same symptoms that I do with Bartonella. Specifically, my lymph glands never swelled up like his did and he had no neuro symptoms (which were my #1 symptom popping up within days of being bitten by the spider).

So, if this is the same bacteria, how is that we sufferers with Lyme have such different symptoms that your average joe who has cat scratch fever? Does it have to do with having Lyme in the mix as well or are our immune systems different, which leads us to not being able to fight these diseases and also having different symptoms?

I'm just wondering....looking for what I'm missing as I always find it interesting to learn anything I can about these diseases.
Posted 3/12/2017 11:16 AM (GMT -5)
Jenny, when the bacteria comes into our body I think it goes for our weak spots. Mine was my lymph nodes, joints, brain and heart.

Now, my husband, whom I really think I infected, his symptoms went directly to his ears and muscles.

Mine totally make sense and so do his. Both of us have life facts that relate to why lyme affected those parts in us. It was probably the same bacteria, but it searched out and found weak places to inhabit and cause pain.

That is the best explanation I can think of.

It may not be correct but lyme just affects everyone differently. How come some that are bit don't even get it? Those I envy.
Posted 3/12/2017 11:41 AM (GMT -5)
Cat scratch is Bartonella H. It is thought that tick born Bartonella is more complex and difficult to treat. Some call it BLO, short for Bartonella Like Organisms. I'm not saying ticks can't transmit Bart H alone, just that it often comes with other infections which allows it to thrive and manifest itself in different ways.
Posted 3/12/2017 11:53 AM (GMT -5)
Cat scratch fever is Bartonella henselae, but Bartonella has 25 different strains that have been identified, and at this point, there are 9 different strains that have been confirmed in people. I believe that those that do not have a positive test, yet have symptoms or respond to treatment likely have one of the 16 strains that haven't been identified in people - yet. Most tests do not test for all 9 types of Bartonella that have been found in people.

We must also take into consideration any other issues a person may be dealing with, whether it's Lyme or something else, like diabetes or any stressor on the body. They all impact the immune system and how well it responds to the threats.

All of this would also easily explain why some have stronger symptoms in different areas and respond differently to the same protocols and so on - it's a different strain of bacteria, different stressors on the body and so on.
Posted 3/12/2017 12:17 PM (GMT -5)
/www.lymedisease.org/lyme-basics/co-infections/bartonella/

a great article on bartonella
Posted 3/12/2017 1:11 PM (GMT -5)
Good article PeteZa.

If cats get Bart H from fleas, they can just as easily get whatever kind of Bartonella we can get directly from ticks. Can't they? Mice are the shared vector? Or am I wrong?

How easy is it for a lab to find and identify the type of Bart it is? Do Drs. just guess?
Posted 3/12/2017 1:16 PM (GMT -5)
Doctors mainly have to guess as to what strain of any of these infections that we have.

We can get these infections from fleas too - any infections they are carrying we can get.

There are no lab tests that have been developed to show if it's not one of the 2 or 3 strains of Borrelia, 3 strains of Bartonella and 2 or 3 strains of Babesia, 1 or 2 strains of Rickettsia (RMSF stuff) and so on. There are MANY strains that can not be identified in people as of yet, even though they can be identified in the lab strains.
Posted 3/12/2017 3:34 PM (GMT -5)
In his 2015 book on Lyme Disease, Stephen Buhner points out that “depth examination of Ixodes ticks has found they can carry up to 237 genera of microorganisms that are infectious to vertebrates” (and that’s just one type of tick). A genus is a group of organisms with similar characteristics. For microbes, a genus can include many species. Tallied up, the list of tick-borne microbes adds up into the hundreds or even thousands.

/rawlsmd.com/health-articles/lyme-disease-series-part-3-not-just-borrelia-truth-about-coinfections

Darn the link doesn't work for me --

copy and paste into browser --

rawlsmd.com/health-articles/lyme-disease-series-part-3-not-just-borrelia-truth-about-coinfections

Post Edited (PeteZa) : 3/12/2017 9:40:59 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 3/12/2017 9:52 PM (GMT -5)
PeteZa good article! Thanks! I didn't know there were different strains of Bartonella. Good to know. They only mention ticks and fleas in the article.....

I actually got Bartonella from a spider bite. Actually he bit me twice in rapid succession on each of my legs before I could shake him off of my pants. The bite sites both swelled and bruised immediately, there was an odd color to the "bruising" and a very strange look to it. Within a few days I started having neuro sypmtoms - feeling like there was bugs crawling or stray hairs on my skin all the time. Within a few weeks, I had bart rashes, weird coloring on my skin in various areas.

Totally great info folks! Thanks!
Posted 3/12/2017 10:42 PM (GMT -5)
How scary to get bit by a spider. I am not afraid of them, but I definitely think a dead spider is a good spider.
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