Antibiotics vs. Herbs

Hello,

I'm new to the forum and would like to thank the moderators & contributors for the wonderful job you do here to help people. I'm a researcher by trade so have voraciously read your "new" section, several threads and books by Buhner, Horowitz, Zhang, etc. I'm at a crossroads and would love to hear the views of the folks here... (apologies in advance for the long'ish explanation.)

My situation: Debilitating symptoms for the past 18 months that seemed to coincide with taking a nasal corticosteroid (Flonase) daily for 3 months. Flonase did wonders for my hay fever which now seems to be mostly gone but in my opinion, the stuff was somehow poison for me and woke up a bunch of stuff going on in my body. Within three days of stopping it, my hair stopped falling out & brain fog became tolerable. Prior to that, I have a history going way back of hiking, living on Long Island and things I now know could be related to TBD's (TMJ, major neck issues, Trigeminal Neuralgia, low back pain, achy joints, "shin splints", chronic fatique). Over the years, I think I've stumbled upon herbs and nutriceuticals I took for these sypmtoms that I now know can be helpful for TBD's (liposomal glutathione, ashwanghanda, methyl B12/folate, etc.) and feel they probably helped keep things in check when I was younger (just a guess though.) I have mapped my genome and participate greatly in that end of self exploration but there's nothing much helpful there yet for TBD's.

Jump to today. I'm 52 and my symptoms are getting progressively worse. I quit my job 18 months ago to try and solve for this so time is of the essence. I'm back to brain fog, arthritis, terrible pain in wrists/palms/fingers/forearms that sometimes feels like my wrist could just break off. Also have the stabbing/burning/crawling neuropathy stuff. My primary doc found high RF factor in a test so diagnosed me with RA a year ago. I dove into that research and never went the pharma route for auto-immune because it didn't pass the smell test. I never had a single inflammation marker show up positive and came to believe I didn't have RA. I did however get a positive on band 23 of a Labcorp Western Blot, at which point my doc said I didn't have Lyme (you guys know that story). I found a Functional Med doc and tests indicate I have a healthy gut biome, no food irritants, no thyroid issues, no CIBO issues, etc. I do test positive for viruses and show a reactivated EBV (although doc doesn't seem to care). Also tested negative on Labcorp's co-infection panel. I pushed for an Igenex test and it came back yesterday with these results:

IgM: Igenex & CDC=Positive: 23-25++ / 31+ / 34="I" / 39="I" / 41++
IgG: Igenex & CDC=Negative: 41="I" / 45++

Worth noting I have 5 cats and have had cats my whole life. I wonder about Bartonella too for me but mret alarmingly, my 15yo son has these odd stretch marks on his back that we couldn't explain and they came out around 18 months ago. I just learned that could be bartonella so I'm feeling a little devastated for him and guilty as a mom because I missed it. He's suffering with brain fog they like to call inattentive adhd and I've been trying to help him with fish oil, etc. I'm going to start treating him for Bartonella.

My appointment with the LLNP at my Functional Med clinic is next Monday & I know I'll be offered a choice. My question to the group (and I know we don't provide medical advice here) is in your experience and given what you see above, is there a benefit to taking a hybrid route and actually using the antibiotics with herbs? I tend to be more of an herbal girl and am up on all the protocols. I know I have a 9+ month (forever really) journey ahead and I'd like to hear opinions of the group because I'm willing to try antibiotics if it makes sense. I also don't understand how I could have symptoms for years and I'm positive on IgM (indicates recent infection?) and not on IgG? That feels the complete opposite of what my intuition tells me so perhaps it's just another testing inadequacy?

Thanks so much for listening and for any personal opinions you may feel comfortable offering.

HappyTrails

Hi HappyTrails, welcome!

I see Traveler has given you a ton of great information.

You definitely have lyme - your history, along with pulling a CDC Positive IGenex IGM test.

And...it's wise to have your son tested for lyme as well. I realize that he could just get bartonella from the cats...but if you've been exposed to ticks carrying lyme...it's possible (probable) your son has been as well.
Generally, when a healthy person picks up bartonella from a cat, the disease is self-limiting - but when you have lyme, along with it...the immune system often can't handle the heavy load.

Regarding detox - here's a link to a website with some good ideas:

www.tiredoflyme.com/detox-methods

I had to go with herbals only, so if that's your choice, it doesn't necessarily mean that you will need to treat longer. I actually healed very quickly using herbals - 1 year of treatment for Lyme and Bart combined, and one year of Babesia treatment.... but I got reinfected, so I'm back in the fight, and this time it's more complicated because of Addison's and thyroid issues now being significant.

Just know that the choice of what to use is yours and yours alone. No one knows what will work for them and what won't until they have used them. Oh, and please know that we are here to support you no matter what you choose to use - as long as it's effective and safe.

PeteZa, thank you for the insight and for reminding me to look again at Rawls. I have his book but haven't read yet so will do so this weekend. Yesterday I studied Klinghardt's theories & protocols. Admirable work but I couldn't do that on my own. Wondering now if I should combine some of these into a best-of approach or stick with one plan such as Buhner or Rawls. Zhang was compelling but I can't tolerate garlic & it's a major component of Zhang. I need to create a spreadsheet comparing various protocols.

Also thank you to Girlie for the welcome and advice on my son. I will get him tested.

HappyTrails

Post Edited (HappyTrails) : 5/25/2017 3:46:06 AM (GMT-6)

Welcome to the community!!!! Antibiotics have been helpful for me but they are hit and miss for patients and entail some risks for sure. I'm a fan of combo therapies. But if antibiotics are worrying you, you could always start first with an herbal protocol, do that for a while, see how you do. Test out a few different protocols if you can. If results are lacking or your intuition is the herbal therapies aren't the right path then you could reexplore the possibility of abx down the line, or other modalities as well.

Personally I do abx combo'd with herbs, and have recently started doing rife which seems to be a helpful therapy for me. As with most things will likely take time to get results, given my herx issues, length of illness, immune system genetics, and what I consider entrenched nature of pathogens it takes me a while to make progress. I often need to rotate the antimicrobial meds, I think pathogens get sly and figure things out, then I plateau, and need to punch them from a new angle. Strengthening and supporting immune system are also crucial aspects in the treatment of these diseases, lifestyle and diet as well!

Thanks to everybody for the warm welcome and good advice. I am leaning toward doing 28 days of antibiotics + Buhner's protocol simultaneously and for the long haul. Headed to the LLNP on Tuesday so hopefully I get good help and come home with what I want.