Why isn't Lyme infecting everyone?

mpost said...
i think there is also a genetic component that makes a subset of the lyme infected people very sick and chronic. it's very complicated.

I beginning to see the validity in this. Being from the New England area, I think the uniqueness of those who are chronically ill is in their genetic makeup not so much in the bacteria itself. Ticks are everywhere and people are getting bit all the time. I got bit multiple times as a child as well as family and friends, but I'm the only one that is sick.

If we poked and proded around our bodies I'm sure we would find more pathogens than just borrellia and co-infections existing in our microbiome. Taking that a step further I can guarantee there are a lot of people infected with Lyme and Co that will never have problems. I've competed with so many other outdoor athletes and I am the only one that I know of having these issues yet our exposure and risk for infection was exactly the same. I once mentioned that I never checked myself for tick's because not only was it rare to hear about people getting Lyme disease, I never heard of someone being chronically ill from it. FWIW, I used to live in the town next to Lyme CT as well as Southeast MA near the Cape where I believe the deer tick population is highest of anywhere in this country.

When you take into consideration the amount of antibiotics and herbals some of us have been on and add in the fact that almost everyone claims to herx from one thing or another (which means your killing bacteria) then why are people still sick? Also if you cruise around on pubmed you will notice that biofilms, persisters, etc are not unique to Lyme. There is more to the story for sure. My guess is that the truth is somewhere in between a chronically active infection (ILADS philosophy) and autoimmunity (IDSA philosophy).

I also don't understand the connection made with cancer, alzeimhers, fibro, lupus etc. Over 95% of the world population is infected with EBV why not blame that? I wonder what the numbers look like for the chicken pox virus, catch scratch fever etc. I guess the bottom line for Jingles is that science just isn't there yet.

"I also don't understand the connection made with cancer, alzeimhers, fibro, lupus etc. Over 95% of the world population is infected with EBV why not blame that?"

The connection between these diseases is not very specific. In other words they are side effects of chronic infections in general. EBV HAS been blamed for some of that stuff but it is not the only cause nor does it usually act alone.

mm57553 said...
I think more people have it than don't, especially in endemic areas. A lot of just asymptomatic because their immune system keeps it in check. Could be due to genetic factors or other issues.

I also don't believe that it is transmitted by mosquitoes. I also think it's not as easy to transmit sexually as some claim. Dr. H agrees on these points. Theoretically, mosquitoes should transmit Lyme, but theoretically they should transmit HIV, and we know they don't. It's not a simple as Lyme is found in mosquitoes, so it much be transmitted to humans. Their are processes the bacteria go through within the actual tick itself that allows the bacteria to survive and be transmitted to humans. There's also the fact that ticks only feed on humans for a few seconds, ticks feed for days. I definitely think these are areas that need a lot more research though.

I do think that it is pretty clear that Lyme is transmitted in utero. Babies born to mothers who are infected have tested positive at birth. That's pretty convincing. Miscarriage and trouble conceiving can also be caused by Lyme. The trouble conceiving is hard to prove, but babies lost to miscarriage have tested positive for Lyme.

Good post. Psilo had a good one too. I have no dog in this fight, I'm a science guy. I see it from a scientific point of view but I also have the ability to see practically. I'm sorry Trav, mosquitoes having the spirochetes and transmitting enough of them to cause disease are completely different. The science shows that. One mosquito did transmit a spirochete to one of those hamsters but it did not get Lyme. It produced antibodies against it. A non-virulent or even dead spirochete would have caused the same response. It did not cause disease.

As for other questions in the thread, has there been a study on "normal" populations to see how many people had Lyme? Yes, the study I read showed that 48 or 49% of the people tested showed a PCR positive response to having the borrelia bacteria. Of those people, only a small percentage, I believe it was less than 15% showed any signs or symptoms of having Lyme Disease. Of those, a very small percentage of the people were actually doing poorly. Most of the time, it boils down to other factors helping the disease get a foothold. Virulence plays a role but I am a great example. I've hunted my entire life. I've been bitten by ticks my entire life. I only got Lyme when I was 37 years old and again at 42 years old. Something else was playing a role IMO. I could speculate but it would only be speculation.

1000Daisies said...
Well, I was one of those people who is positive for lyme but not sick much at all from it. The only reason I tested was after all three of my kids were positive and showed various symptoms over the years. I suspected that I passed on to my kids, and my immune system was keeping it in check. But my kids immune systems are obviously not. So, needless to say, I believe in a genetic factor as one of the factors why some are sick and others not. (Two of my kids have been severely sick, whereas the third not as severely so far.)
I am proactively treating with herbals, and I am worse with treatment than I was before treatment in regards to lyme/coinfection symptoms. I struggle with that.

I believe a lot of us say "lyme", but I personally think some of the coinfections can be just as bad, and many times worse, than lyme itself.

Find me, Matt Adcock, on Facebook and ask to be a friend. I've written about a few things that may help.

mpost said...


You don't understand the connection ? Don't say ! LoL, who does ? If you manage to get it, do write a paper, get famous and cash in your Nobel prize

The connections actually not so horribly complex. The mechanisms are pretty well worked out but some interdisciplinary mergers need to occur for specialists to wrap their heads around it. For cancers, they are basically indistinguishable from the concept of a parasitized wound. An intracellular parasite like borrelia gets in, shuts down all the mechanisms of cell death effectively immortalizing it. Then it generates chronic inflammation leading to wound healing processes the comprise all the major features of cancer (matrix remodeling, vascular growth, tissue growth) etc while also generating genotoxic ROS and RNS that is normally used to combat pathogens. So you have an immortalized wound that's being told to grow continuously. The only thing stopping it is genetic integrity. When that's finally lost... This is well accepted for viruses but the overemphasis on genetics over parasitic lifestyle has prevented such a connection for bacteria.

Alzheimers i haven't got so deep into but many features parallel bacterial biofilms and the plaques are probably simply just that.

Autoimmune disease is easy and pretty well accepted. Many different processes like molecular mimicry, epitope spreading, super antigens, etc can explain how an infection turns autoimmune. And anyone paying attention to the need for TLR activation in costimulation can easily see how microbes are not just one possible cause but a fundamental factor in the development of autoimmunity

I love this forum. Such a good discussion and so much to research now....

Everyone...PLEASE read the book 'The Virus Within', and watch Dr. GARTH Nicholsen on youtube videos titled, 'weoponized mycoplasmas in vaccines'

Bluelyme hit the nail RIGHT on when mentioned population control. Its not quackery, or conspiracy theory...theres very famous billionaires(also view on youtube) who believe the world is overpopulated, using up TOO much natural resources, and its THEIR jobs to solve what they 'believe' is a serious problem. Its called eugenics, and the ideology is quickly gaining popularity.

Those billionaires admit their BELIEFS that it requires fertilization programs and vaccines to control population growth. 'They' have unlimited resources and admit on video interviews that they believe eugenics is WHY theyve been 'made' billionaires.

I KNOW the names of THREE of them, and have personally attended one of the speaking conferences on Eugenics in Washington state. He's a man who EVERYONE globally knows his name.

So, where does Lyme disease come in? HISTORICALLY, Our unvaccinated, untampered with immune systems could effectively KILL the spirochetes, with the help of natural herbal ABX...

But we've perverted 'nature' by massive vaccinations. Dr. GARTH Nicholsen discovered in his government grant funded research, that veterans got Gulf war syndrome from contaminated vaccines. He's PROVED(by buying random lots of various vaccines from each maker) that as much as 5% of vaccines to be contaminated with a very specific strain of mycoplasma(a weoponized strain) that is capable of 'gene shuffling'. The gene shuffling also discussed by scientists Knox and Carrigan in their book, 'Virus Within', is responsible for a domino effect that allows infections to 'take over'!!!

Pre-vaccine era...immune systems did what was originally designed to do, with the help of natures herbs.

Post-vaccine era...new autoimmune diseases(mystery illnesses), and cancers SKYROCKET!

Also, watch Dr. Tent on the historical account of how diseases were eradicated w/proper hygeine, well ventilated buildings, and modern plumbing, and OF COURSE the knowledge of how disease is spread. Long before vaccines, the plague was contained just by taking extra precutions of wearing face masks, washing hands, and separating patients. The worlds most deadly diseases have NOT been absent due to vaccines!!!

Girlie - i did understand that stat is from sick people seeking a answer however i think most people here in the states are sick -be it labeled from psychological to ibs from ms to arthriti$ . And even if its not as high as 90% i do believe that illness is pathogen based .

the original ? Is why does not everybody have this and while i believe they do(and respect your opinion) if not now then they will .only a healthy person need be bit by a mosquito that was feeding on me and i just gave the gift that keeps on giving ... Communicable ,std ,vector born and transplacentally its only a matter of time .consider ourselves fortunate we know what it is @nd how to fight it

mcspike -props g thanks