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New protocol- Bactrim, Azithromycin and Doxy. What to expect?

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Posted 8/23/2017 7:51 PM (GMT -5)
Anyone got any tips for taking this protocol? Are these drugs hard to handle or not a big deal?

I hope I can finally get some results with Lyme treatments.

Thanks!
Posted 8/23/2017 10:07 PM (GMT -5)
3 antibiotics seem like a huge big deal to me. I could only handle 2 for less than a month and turned to herbs.

Do all the rules -- Detox, probiotics and fermented foods.
Posted 8/23/2017 10:59 PM (GMT -5)
Doxy and zithromax are pretty easy to take. Bactrim is actually two seperate abx, so you are really taking 4 abx at once. It sounds like a rough protocol in terms of GI intolerance, but you should be able to take it. Are you pulsing at all?
Posted 8/23/2017 11:09 PM (GMT -5)
I don't think pulsing is involved but I'm open to modifying to pulse if it's a strategy that's commonly used with any of these antibiotics.

Thanks
Posted 8/24/2017 2:04 AM (GMT -5)
Make sure you take doxy with food...it can be hard on the stomach.

I found Bactrim hard to take. I was prescribed it a year ago...and i got really bad burning nerve pain in my back.

Then, more recently I tried it again...same thing.

I don't know if it's a herx...i'm leaning more toward a side effect...but not sure.

Bactrim is one that has always concerned me because when I first looked it up I read about the risk of Stevens Johnson syndrome. (I believe it is rare, though)

For peace of mind i stopped taking it.

Many people have taken it with good results, though.
Posted 8/24/2017 3:46 AM (GMT -5)
What to expect? Expect big herxes esp. with pulse dosing.

Any clue why it is doxy and not mino? Mino is believed to be active against wider range of pathogens.

> I don't know if it's a herx...i'm leaning more toward a side effect...but not sure.

Probably a herx, maybe Bactim stimulated the immune system too much(it is known to be a mild immune booster).
Posted 8/24/2017 9:15 AM (GMT -5)

Dmitry said...
What to expect? Expect big herxes esp. with pulse dosing.

Any clue why it is doxy and not mino? Mino is believed to be active against wider range of pathogens.

> I don't know if it's a herx...i'm leaning more toward a side effect...but not sure.

Probably a herx, maybe Bactim stimulated the immune system too much(it is known to be a mild immune booster).

I'm not sure why the doctor chose doxy over mino.

I also have the option to use rifampin over bactrim. Not sure which may be easier to handle though.
Posted 8/25/2017 11:50 AM (GMT -5)
Would pulsing mean to take it a few days on and a few days off? Anyone know a way to do that?

I'm interested if it might make it easier on my body and not cause drug resistance.
Posted 8/25/2017 12:07 PM (GMT -5)

Dmitry said...
What to expect? Expect big herxes esp. with pulse dosing.

Any clue why it is doxy and not mino? Mino is believed to be active against wider range of pathogens.

> I don't know if it's a herx...i'm leaning more toward a side effect...but not sure.

Probably a herx, maybe Bactim stimulated the immune system too much(it is known to be a mild immune booster).

I'm not so sure because it happens after one or two days of starting the Bactrim and that is earlier than my usual herxes.
Also - my other symptoms don't ramp up.

I find the pulsing easier to tolerate than daily dosing.

I'm doing: week 1 M/W/F. Week 2 M/T/W/Th/F
Then 2 weeks off
Posted 8/25/2017 12:13 PM (GMT -5)

Girlie said...

Dmitry said...
What to expect? Expect big herxes esp. with pulse dosing.

Any clue why it is doxy and not mino? Mino is believed to be active against wider range of pathogens.

> I don't know if it's a herx...i'm leaning more toward a side effect...but not sure.

Probably a herx, maybe Bactim stimulated the immune system too much(it is known to be a mild immune booster).

I'm not so sure because it happens after one or two days of starting the Bactrim and that is earlier than my usual herxes.
Also - my other symptoms don't ramp up.

I find the pulsing easier to tolerate than daily dosing.

I'm doing: week 1 M/W/F. Week 2 M/T/W/Th/F
Then 2 weeks off

Thanks. With that schedule do you think the doxy and zithro can be taken daily or also pulsed?
Posted 8/25/2017 12:13 PM (GMT -5)
Hi X, everyone is so different.

But, like Girlie, I have had a really hard time with Bactrim. I was prescribed DS (800) x 2 per day. However, I couldn't even stand SS (400) x 2 per day, half the dose. My neuro symptoms became unbearable.

My LLMD said that some people have had success treating Bartonella with Bactrim. I was using it because it was compatible with the Mepron I was taking for Babesia. But, I've finished Babs treatment, and am now turning to finish Bart and Lyme. Because of that, I'm going to turn to Rifampin for Bart.

Azith has been great for me, and I didn't have any issues with Doxy except that it's extremely tough on your stomach. I echo what others have said about eating something substantive before taking Doxy and DETOX, DETOX, DETOX!

Good luck, you'll get there, it just takes time!
Posted 8/25/2017 12:37 PM (GMT -5)

KB69 said...
Hi X, everyone is so different.

But, like Girlie, I have had a really hard time with Bactrim. I was prescribed DS (800) x 2 per day. However, I couldn't even stand SS (400) x 2 per day, half the dose. My neuro symptoms became unbearable.

My LLMD said that some people have had success treating Bartonella with Bactrim. I was using it because it was compatible with the Mepron I was taking for Babesia. But, I've finished Babs treatment, and am now turning to finish Bart and Lyme. Because of that, I'm going to turn to Rifampin for Bart.

Azith has been great for me, and I didn't have any issues with Doxy except that it's extremely tough on your stomach. I echo what others have said about eating something substantive before taking Doxy and DETOX, DETOX, DETOX!

Good luck, you'll get there, it just takes time!

Me too - I had trouble on the 400 twice daily! If I hadn't read all the horror stories on Bactrim, I might have persevered.
And, I also wanted it for bart while I was treating Babs.

I'll have to revisit bart with Rifampin after i'm finished the mepron
Posted 8/25/2017 12:47 PM (GMT -5)
Thanks. I actually have rifampin as well but was scared to take it cause of the increased heart rate side effect but that is an option for me.

It looks like my bactrim dose is 800-160 MG tab twice a day so I guess it's not a low dose.
Posted 8/25/2017 1:20 PM (GMT -5)
Anyone checking creatinine with Bactrim? Trimetoprim puts a little stress on kidneys. This is the most objective marker to rollback with dosage IMO...

see this - /www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/4005491

Post Edited (Dmitry) : 8/25/2017 12:25:44 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 8/25/2017 1:26 PM (GMT -5)
X, that's definitely the full dose. So, you may wish to start with half the dose just to see how your body reacts. You may have no issues with it whatsoever. Many haven't.

Please talk to your LLMD if you think you starting out slowly is not the right course of action, as I'm not a doctor. But, my experience in the last 10 months (and others here might say the same) has been that I'm better of introducing a new ABX or herb at lower than the dose prescribed.

Girlie, have you tried Rifampin yet? I'm just hoping I don't have a problem with Rifampin when I start next week for Bartonella. There's got to be something I can take that will hit the Bart, and Bactrim just isn't it for me.

I know Traveler had success with Houttuynia (and possibly Sida Acuta, I can't recall if she added that, too). Others have mentioned A-Bart. But, I hear Rifampin is successful in many cases. I'm just going to be sure I start small and ramp up slowly.

Here's to everyone making progress, as slow as it is at times...
Posted 8/25/2017 4:26 PM (GMT -5)

Xelaetaks said...

Girlie said...

Dmitry said...
What to expect? Expect big herxes esp. with pulse dosing.

Any clue why it is doxy and not mino? Mino is believed to be active against wider range of pathogens.

> I don't know if it's a herx...i'm leaning more toward a side effect...but not sure.

Probably a herx, maybe Bactim stimulated the immune system too much(it is known to be a mild immune booster).

I'm not so sure because it happens after one or two days of starting the Bactrim and that is earlier than my usual herxes.
Also - my other symptoms don't ramp up.

I find the pulsing easier to tolerate than daily dosing.

I'm doing: week 1 M/W/F. Week 2 M/T/W/Th/F
Then 2 weeks off

Thanks. With that schedule do you think the doxy and zithro can be taken daily or also pulsed?

And some people do M/W/F for two weeks, then one week off.

The idea is you pulse them all - so that you have breaks - for two reasons: Your body gets a break - easier on the liver, etc. and maybe herxing not so bad as daily protocols.
And secondly, on the time off - it is thought (by the LLMD who has pretty much pioneered this pulsing method) that the immune system may start to 'kick' in - since the antibiotics aren't doing the work.
Posted 8/25/2017 4:30 PM (GMT -5)

Dmitry said...
Anyone checking creatinine with Bactrim? Trimetoprim puts a little stress on kidneys. This is the most objective marker to rollback with dosage IMO...

see this - /www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/4005491

I have the Creatinine tested plus the GFR - both kidney function tests.

I used to have them done every month, but somehow it got switched to every 3 months.
Posted 8/25/2017 4:33 PM (GMT -5)

KB69 said...
X, that's definitely the full dose. So, you may wish to start with half the dose just to see how your body reacts. You may have no issues with it whatsoever. Many haven't.

Please talk to your LLMD if you think you starting out slowly is not the right course of action, as I'm not a doctor. But, my experience in the last 10 months (and others here might say the same) has been that I'm better of introducing a new ABX or herb at lower than the dose prescribed.

.

But if he only takes one per day - then it would be a half dose...right?

I actually had the half -dose pills. So, I should have been taking 4 a day...but only managed doing that once or twice...
Posted 8/25/2017 4:35 PM (GMT -5)

KB69 said...

Girlie, have you tried Rifampin yet? I'm just hoping I don't have a problem with Rifampin when I start next week for Bartonella. There's got to be something I can take that will hit the Bart, and Bactrim just isn't it for me.

Yup - no issues whatsoever with the Rifampin...except some herxes. It will hit Bart.
Sometimes Bactrim isn't enough...and Rifampin will work.

Strange thing about Riffy and me was my liver enzymes were fine on it...in fact better than they were throughout all my Lyme 'only' treatment. Go figure.
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