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Is Diet underrated?

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Posted 10/10/2017 5:12 PM (GMT -5)
I know diet is an important part for lyme recovery and people are aware of it but is it "underrated"?

Is it underrated in the holistic approach of healing from lyme? Where abx and herbs get more of the spotlight and credit than food/diet?

I'm wondering this because after my short initial abx treatment (where I stopped and never used abx again, until now) and very spotty herb use here and there, I did a strict paleo/primal diet to fix my gut (not really even doing it for lyme but gut health). After I did this and stuck with the diet, this was the period at was at my best.

At my best means elimination of majority of symptoms. A great decrease in a few that lingered around. AND what I probably don't give enough credit, possible future symptoms that I avoided.

But after I reached an optimal level, my mindset was I was all clear and I go kind of go back to "normal", where I ate moderately healthy and I stopped detoxing.

When I used to do these things religiously. Never missed a day of epsom foot soak, lemon water, avacados in my diet, coconut oil in my diet, fish/fish oil in my diet. All daily.

All things that soothe and heal CNS symptoms.

In hindsight, this going back to "normal" and not realizing I'm going to be one of those lymies that have to do this for life (which I don't mine if it properly manages lyme), has greatly set me back now.

But anywho, my point is, I did abx for a short period and spotty herb treatment but was hardcore about my diet and detoxing and that got me to an optimal level (almost alone).

I know detoxing is not underrated and that is talked about and advocated heavily here but is diet underrated?

Post Edited (dacarte3) : 10/10/2017 4:24:50 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 10/10/2017 6:44 PM (GMT -5)
I can only speak for myself, but I know that for me adopting a clean all natural ketogenic diet ( with some extra restrictions) has been the most helpful part of my healing regimen.

Prior to going keto, I hadn't had a menstual period for 6+ years. My Lyme symptoms were so extreme that most days I was literally bed-bound & when I was able to get out of bed I was so dizzy I had to hold onto things to walk. I was having bizarre neurological episodes frequently. I could go on & on about how bad my symptoms were.

I was so sick that I literally couldn't go get the blood work I required to test me for Lyme until I had been on the new diet for close to 8 months. It took a long time for my symptoms to begin to get better, but when they did, it was significant & very noticeable.

Of course, I still feel awful- but nowhere close to the way I felt prior to the diet change. Maybe someday after I'm healed from Lyme I will consider adding in some healthy carbs- or going Paleo etc.

But that's nowhere in the near future for me - and that's ok. All I have to do to stay on track right now is remember just how bad I felt prior to going keto.
Posted 10/10/2017 7:17 PM (GMT -5)

Casa11 said...
I can only speak for myself, but I know that for me adopting a clean all natural ketogenic diet ( with some extra restrictions) has been the most helpful part of my healing regimen.

Prior to going keto, I hadn't had a menstual period for 6+ years. My Lyme symptoms were so extreme that most days I was literally bed-bound & when I was able to get out of bed I was so dizzy I had to hold onto things to walk. I was having bizarre neurological episodes frequently. I could go on & on about how bad my symptoms were.

I was so sick that I literally couldn't go get the blood work I required to test me for Lyme until I had been on the new diet for close to 8 months. It took a long time for my symptoms to begin to get better, but when they did, it was significant & very noticeable.

Of course, I still feel awful- but nowhere close to the way I felt prior to the diet change. Maybe someday after I'm healed from Lyme I will consider adding in some healthy carbs- or going Paleo etc.

But that's nowhere in the near future for me - and that's ok. All I have to do to stay on track right now is remember just how bad I felt prior to going keto.

Is there much difference in Keto diet and paleo? I think paleo allows some grains and like sweet potatoes. Is that the difference?
Posted 10/10/2017 8:12 PM (GMT -5)
changes in my diet did absolutely zero in regards to how i felt, symptoms, etc. i won't paint a broad stroke but for me had no impact. i think it all depends on the individual. do you have a leaky gut, candida issues, some other issue that is sensitive to what you eat/drink? then diet is very important.
Posted 10/10/2017 8:19 PM (GMT -5)

Rikky1 said...
changes in my diet did absolutely zero in regards to how i felt, symptoms, etc. i won't paint a broad stroke but for me had no impact. i think it all depends on the individual. do you have a leaky gut, candida issues, some other issue that is sensitive to what you eat/drink? then diet is very important.

Interesting. I wonder how much detoxing manages lyme.

I just get this feeling that after "recovering" from lyme I don't think the body is ever done fighting it or keeping it in check as they say.

How much is not having a top notch diet and not detoxing the reason for so many relapses and re-crashes?
Posted 10/10/2017 8:26 PM (GMT -5)

1000Daisies said...

Rikky1 said...
changes in my diet did absolutely zero in regards to how i felt, symptoms, etc. i won't paint a broad stroke but for me had no impact. i think it all depends on the individual. do you have a leaky gut, candida issues, some other issue that is sensitive to what you eat/drink? then diet is very important.

^ This.
This was very similar to Kid#1. When he was very sick, we adapted a gluten-free/dairy-free/etc diet for YEARS. It had no positive impact on him. In fact, I regret doing it for him as long as I did, as I don't think it was healthy to be cutting out so many food groups for a growing kid. Lesson learned. He gradually went off of it, and he healed without a restrictive diet. Go figure.

For Kid#2, the NP put him on a strict similar diet GF/DF/etc. Again, we noticed no benefit, but fortunately, the NP has the opinion to not stick with it if you don't see benefit. We only did this for a few months. It was way too restrictive of a diet, and I'm glad we didn't go longer. It was a good thing to try though, and now we know. He is also improving for his symptoms.

For Kid#3, we fortunately didn't do any diet restrictions with him, except for after a seemingly unrelated hospitalization for recovery.

For me, I have done the strict anti-yeast diet, and I have very mixed feelings about it. I don't feel it's healthy - for me - to be on that type of diet long term, as it caused too many nutritional deficiencies by the restrictive nature of it.

I have very mixed feelings about the diet in regards to lyme. Generally, I feel it has given us no benefit in healing/symptoms. I do think that a changed diet for my yeast issues is an ongoing change of life for me, but I will not go back to that super restrictive diet long term though.

Perhaps we are not talking about the same diet?

The diet I'm speaking of is gluten free and low carb. Meat, vegetables, fruit (in moderation), healthy fats (avacados, nuts, fish/fish oil, coconut oil), and some carbs sometimes (but seldom).

It's actually not THAT restrictive, food is basically what I listed above, you're essentially only sacrificing bread and high carb items.

Keto takes it a bit further and it's basically zero carbs (outside of what you get from veggies).

If it didn't come from the Earth (like marcroni and cheese and pizza) don't eat it, type of diet.
Posted 10/10/2017 8:50 PM (GMT -5)
Its underrated to different degrees based on the individual.

Some things like diet change can take a long time to notice positive changes, but I noticed improvements in one month also. The general population should benefit from some type of diet change, not just lymies.

Unfortunately a good part of the general population thinks "diet" means your trying to lose weight LOL. When I pass on certain food items offered and mention I'm on a certain diet..."why, your not fat!" has been the answer more than a few times.

The thought of healthy eating or natural eating is total foreign to people whose parents fed them junk food as kids like its normal.

The "cheating" Palio recipes also crack me up.

I'll admit my Palio + milk/cheese restrictions do get old. Didnt want to do this a long time, but.going on month 10 now.. Consider this- we still eat way more variety than 1800's "settlement" farmers did.
Posted 10/10/2017 11:33 PM (GMT -5)
I did gluten free, sugar free, and very limited dairy for a few months when first diagnosed.

It didn't do anything, so I dropped it.


Recently started back with gluten free again...going on 5 weeks now...no change.

Think I'm going to drop it again.

I just try to eat healthy - meat, lots of vegetables, limited sugar.
Posted 10/10/2017 11:58 PM (GMT -5)
Im going back to keto and am day 4. I feel healthier overall when I am in ketosis. But I also got too comfortable and then fell out of ketosis. My midsection is bigger as a result, & even though i never went nuts with carbs, I believe this isnt healthy.

Dr Darren Schmidts videos that i posted links to have convinced me that he knows his stuff and i am impressed with his vast practical and technical knowledge about metabolic pathways.

He says ketosis is not enough, the alkaline diet is misleading, and at some point you must add fasting, so this is my goal to take it to that level which I never was able to achieve. I wish to incorporate the discipline that one needs to do fasting.

He also says if you have all of the B vitamins (Cataplex B) and oxygen you cant get cancer as one must be lacking. Cancer is a real concern of mine as I know I have alot of aflatoxins in my body which are medically linked to cancer assuming an average diet.

The keto will clean fat out of my liver and if any toxins are in my liver they are likely stored in this fat. My immediate goal is to clean out the liver.

I am impressed with his level of knowledge and trust his judgement. He cured himself from mold and aspergilloses which few know how to do and is impressive. He is my new top guy.
Posted 10/11/2017 12:27 AM (GMT -5)
decarte3, yes, I think paleo allows some higher carb veggies ( like sweet potatoes, yum) and maybe some healthy grains - but it also allows FRUIT- mostly berries I think, I honestly haven't gotten super far into researching it yet... just holding out hope that I might someday get to eat fruit & sweet potatos again!( without paying for it by feeling extra unwell the following day/s)
Posted 10/11/2017 2:22 AM (GMT -5)
Good. So it's not just me that is doing a diet and feeling little to no benefit. I'm doing gluten, dairy, sugar and egg (because of intolerance test) free and it's so frustrating. I actually find the sugar the easiest to avoid since I wasn't eating much anyway. But that gluten free bread is a misery!
Posted 10/11/2017 2:31 AM (GMT -5)

RedLabel said...
Good. So it's not just me that is doing a diet and feeling little to no benefit. I'm doing gluten, dairy, sugar and egg (because of intolerance test) free and it's so frustrating. I actually find the sugar the easiest to avoid since I wasn't eating much anyway. But that gluten free bread is a misery!


Yes, it's difficult finding a gluten free bread that has good texture and taste
Posted 10/11/2017 5:51 AM (GMT -5)

dacarte3 said...

I'm wondering this because after my short initial abx treatment (where I stopped and never used abx again, until now) and very spotty herb use here and there, I did a strict paleo/primal diet to fix my gut (not really even doing it for lyme but gut health). After I did this and stuck with the diet, this was the period at was at my best.

At my best means elimination of majority of symptoms. A great decrease in a few that lingered around. AND what I probably don't give enough credit, possible future symptoms that I avoided.

be careful, you can be easily fooled by lyme. after a succesful antibiotic treatment it is very much expected for you to feel much better than before. that is the purpose of the treatment. you get worse then you get better.

it is very easy to confuse that with something else you were doing, like diet.

this is a very serious disease, i'd say it would be wise to avoid any foods that contain inflammatory elements. gluten and dairy are among the very top of all food allergies, they all play some role in MS/neurological autoimmune diseases, although nobody really understand what. but given yo have this pathogen, the last thing you want is more inflammation and autoimmune issues, so i'd keep on to the diet regardless of what i believe or not believe. put it this way, if you dont eat gluten, you're not gonna die, same as for dairy. however if avoiding those foods might give you 20% less disability in 10 years from now, wouldn't that be a good idea?
Posted 10/11/2017 7:55 AM (GMT -5)
In my case I feel like I learned so much from having chronic lyme and even though it's over 11 years later that I am healed I still watch my diet and eat as healthy as possible. That means no sugar, no processed foods, no bread, etc. I eat organic veggies, wild caught fish, raw nuts and the list goes on. I am lucky I have a local farmers market that I frequent where local farmers grow their own.

I'm also lucky that I have neighbors who have chickens and they give me organic eggs.

I do believe that cliché "you are what you eat" is so true. What bothers me is I don't have access to the foods my parents did as well as my grandparents as these days most foods are GMO, not labeled correctly, etc. It takes work to find healthy foods and I admit that eating what I feel is good for me gets boring as I am always searching for new recipes. I guess the payoff is worth it as I still feel good!

A healthy diet is one part of staying healed. I believe that keeping up the detox baths, dry skin brushing, etc. is another part.

Mind, body, spirit.. They are all connected so I try to address all three which is a balancing act... I try to be constantly aware of every facet in my life because I do not want to relapse.

Denise
Posted 10/11/2017 8:16 AM (GMT -5)
I'm grain free (except corn) and no sugar except a little honey in coffee or tea or the tiny amount in salad dressing or ketchup. Not opposed to a small cheat on occasion, but never sugar because I finally stopped craving it and don't want to spoil that, plus I think it contributes to my dizziness.

I think it has helped. I knew carbs and sugar made me feel bad for years but I didn't want to avoid them. When my 14-year-old was a baby, he had lots of food allergies and I had to go on an extreme "total elimination" diet to figure out the problem foods because I was nursing him. I learned a lot about the impact different foods had on my body as I added them back. Diet makes a big difference in general to me, but it took this incentive (not feeding the Lyme or candida) to make me get serious about it again.
Posted 10/11/2017 9:51 AM (GMT -5)
I think it seems to play a big role for some and less for others. Also I think it depends on how much the infections are affecting gut and general inflammation. I agree with a lot of what 1000Daisies said.

DS has not been asked to do any special diet stuff and he is recovering. Hard to know if it would have been faster if he hadn't eaten the typical teen boy diet of pizza and sugar - he is now at a school that has excellent healthy food and he's trying to eat better more of the time so that could be part of the things he's currently doing that have brought him back to better health.

I think if you try something diet-wise for a month and don't see a difference then maybe it's not super important for you - other than those fighting candida.
Posted 10/11/2017 11:04 AM (GMT -5)
I'm guessing those who felt no changes didnt have gut issues/bloating ect to begin with? And are probably less likely to have autoimmune issues.

On the oppoasite If you did/do still have gut issues on a healthy diet, then you prob didnt eliminate the foods your intolerant to or didnt wait long enough.

I sleep better, have a settled gut, a little more energy, gained strength, and normalized an antibody that was elevated 20 years.
Posted 10/11/2017 12:17 PM (GMT -5)
Changes in diet only made me feel worse, that is changing to the Paleo and then candida diet. When I returned to my normal, general cross between American and Mediterranean diet I felt better. I think it was a psychological component of losing foods I enjoyed as well as some changes in neurotransmitters from not eating certain food groups.

However, I truly feel if diet change can make someone feel worse, I'm sure the inverse is true and it can help people feel better. But, we are all different.

Jason

Post Edited (JasonSinis) : 10/11/2017 11:20:15 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 10/11/2017 12:37 PM (GMT -5)
In what physical ways did you feel worse? It just doesn't make sense.

If your starving candida, you might feel worse from the die off. - thats part of the healing process.

The American diet is pretty much slang for the junk food snacking and the typical burgers/fries/pizza.

Paleo is how our ancestors ate. Its a diet thats naturally nutritious food allowing proper nutrient absorption from healing the gut. Its eating the way were supposed to. Cave man didnt eat fries and pizza with ice cream and cheesecake for desert. If one feels worse, something else is wrong warranting further investigation.

Psychological dependency on food (very common) is not a diet fault but something else that needs work (inner).

People who are chemically dependent obviously feel worse coming off, before making the turning point.
Posted 10/11/2017 12:51 PM (GMT -5)
100% mood change, depression, tired, weakness, etc. All from the diet change, think Paleo flu. 100x worse than Bartonella similar symptoms for me.

Perhaps it was detoxing something, but my ND and wife (a nutritionist) both suspected changes in neurotransmitters and minerals. I had no candida based on testing. I just wanted to try a diet change experiment. It just wasn't for me.

We tested several neurotransmitters before and after and saw major changes in them just from diet. I know this testing isn't overly relaiable, but it and my affect and energy changed dramatically during and after.

We eat fairy well generally. I wrote American and Med diets because we are will still eat out once We lean to moderate portions and all food groups with more weight on fruits and vegetables, but if we want ice cream or a burger or candy on occasion we eat it. If my kids don't finish their mac and cheese, I might take a bite or two. That kind of stuff didn't seem to bother my Bartonella, as far as I can tell from my record keeping/data.

Again, I think whatever works for anyone is great, if Vegan makes someone feel good, stick with it. If Paleo does, go for it.

Eating all crap, like fast food, clearly isn't. I wouldn't promote that.
Posted 10/11/2017 1:44 PM (GMT -5)
Odd results. We often we say "this wasn't for me ect"- while ignoring the technical reason/details of whats going on.

Not doubting you in your symptoms, but having 100% mood change for the worse while eating natural food does not add up. Somethings wrong. If it were me, Id try to figure out why. What weren't you getting or what were you using up in natural food to create this.

Then again there are "happy hormones" released from eating pleasures in some people- but usually "junk foodies" - ........which is not you.
Posted 10/11/2017 2:24 PM (GMT -5)
Maybe I wasn’t articulating well. When I change diet what I meant was I was omitting food groups per a candida or keto diet. I continue to eat my normal foods just Remove dairy sugar and gluten. That combination did not work well for me. Later on I tried removing just gluten and had similar reactions so now I just eat those things
Posted 10/11/2017 6:51 PM (GMT -5)
I hear ya on the food passions. Guess I wouldn't say I'm passionate about any certain diet. But, I am passionate about trying to feel better and make decisions based on logic and outcome.

Natural eating makes logical sense. But it depend what kind of natural eating. The fact that vegan dont get any meat is not to natural in my mind. If people say, for example, paleo made them feel worse (seen that a few times here), to me that's a red flag.

If our body does not work right eating a wide variety of what were supposed to eat (Paleo)- something is clearly not right, which is worth investigating for future health concerns. Its the details that tell a story.....eventually and sometimes pretty quick.

A good example: I know someone who started Paleo for health reasons (were not feeling well) and ate a lot of red meat. They felt worse with that than carb load foods of their past. The past carbs didnt make them feel better, the red meat now at every dinner made her feel worse. She thought she had lyme, turned out it was STARI and became allergic to red meat. (Funny we dont see STARI from lone star ticks on this forum...?)

Post Edited (astroman) : 10/11/2017 6:03:45 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 10/11/2017 7:26 PM (GMT -5)
I understand what Astroman is trying to say. The human diet IS meat and vegetables and maybe some fruit that is found.

That's what we as organisms eat. That's like a lion saying I tried to do the Zebra diet but it made me feel bad so I went back to spaghetti.

If that's true, then something else is going on there.
Posted 10/12/2017 8:57 AM (GMT -5)
I think its a VERY IMPORTANT part of lyme recovery. Low carb fresh organic foods is so important. Lyme spirochetes feeds off sugar...eating high carbs and high GI foods is a feeding ground for Spirochetes. Low carb will only help and once your adapted to eating low carb it is so beneficial. Remember quality over quantity always. I'm a big diet advocate and seeing people who have lyme eating bad foods makes me simply cringe. High carb diets are also very inflammatory and cause crazy blood sugar swings. Blood sugar is already an issue for us lymies. If any of you have questions about diet and need guidance please contact me and I would be glad to help.
The base diet should include low carb, non starchy veggies, healthy proteins, healthy fats. No gluten and limited dairy. Check out "the Lyme diet" book it has been a crucial part of my recovery.

Fresh organic foods help your body function. If a fresh organic food diet isn't helping you, you should look at your treatment protocol because that's probably where the real issue lays.
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