Mycoplasma - overlooked in Lyme disease

dacarte3 said...

Georgia Hunter said...
I've taken some heat in the past from saying this but I'll say it again, most, not all, but most strains of borrelia are fairly easy to kill. We can't get to all of them because of their unique abilities to survive, but many people live with borrelia with no adverse effects. It is co-infections like mycoplasma, babesia, E histolytica, translocated anaerobes, etc, that complicate borrelia infections.

You shouldn't take heat for this. I believe this is pretty accurate. I believe borrelia is so highly sophisticated from an evolutionary standpoint that it has learned much more than other bacteria to minimize disturbance of the host because it needs to the host to survive.

It rather be quiet in the host but then yes, co-infections get in the mix that's where the major problems arise.

If lyme was already there but other factors like co-infections, mold, and/or stress allows the borrelia load to grow, then the person gets ill, gets tested for lyme and says "oh I it's lyme". While maybe not, maybe you always had borrelia in your system, but now it's out of control.

Kind of like yeast/fungus in our gut. We all have a certain level of it. A "healthy" level if you will but other factors can make it grow out of control and then it becomes a big health problem.

this is why i think the folks on the 'mild hyperbaric treatment' thread are probably on the right track

hbot treats the entire freaking body, every square mm, nothing can escape it. its expensive, long, time consuming. but i think a year or two of treatments could probably eradicate all lyme and co-inf

several people have fully recovered on that thread. some of the were seriously bad off

WalkingbyFaith said...
How do you know when mycoplasma is active - what symptoms does it cause that you can tell apart from all the other stuff?

Not sure about symptoms. I tested IGG pos. My doctor said they will keep an eye on it with blood tests.

PeteZa said...
Here is the comparison chart - scroll down for mycoplasma symptoms. You can click on Mycoplasma Pneunomiae in the list on the far left and it will take you to an easy to read page. You will be amazed at the list of symptoms. I was anyway. If anyone is not getting better after years, it should definitely be considered.

www.lyme-symptoms.com/LymeCoinfectionChart.html

Great resource, PeteZa! Thanks! Now, I finally have something to which I can attribute my irritability. "Hey, back-off! I have Mycoplasma!"

k07 said...

The Dude Abides said...

k07 said...

Thank you. Yours are definitely high. I always have heard double the positive limit is significant on igg. Not sure if that is true. Mine was 272 which is equivocal. I want to test for fermentans.

Happy to oblige. I've also heard that double the positive limit is significant for IgG. But, for the life of me, I cannot recall where I heard it. I thought Dr. Horowitz stated it, during the Chronic Lyme Disease Summit, but I listened to his interview again and didn't hear it. It might have been during a Podcast, but I'm reasonably sure it was Dr. Horowitz.

Do you have any other IgG values over time? Or, just the one that showed 272? I'm curious if your numbers have held consistently high or maybe been up-and-down.

Despite my high IgG numbers for the various labs I listed in this post, I've not done much about them with prescription medications and only limited attempts with herbs (mostly Dr. Rawls' Restore Program.) But, I've grown weary of dealing with the symptoms -- fatigue being the most consistent and prominent -- and I'm just about ready to consider my LLPA's suggestion of multiple antibiotics at once.

Unfortunately the only one I've had retested is EBV and it has always been >600. My HHV6 is 6.41, Parvo is 5.1. Luckily neg for CMV and CPN. Those plus the Myco Pneum are the only ones I've had tested.

So, you're also elevated for Parvovirus! Interesting.

I inadvertently passed that to my girlfriend, earlier this year. The poor woman was almost completely bedridden for a couple of weeks, due to the crushing fatigue. Unlike me, though, she eventually recovered, thankfully. I told her, "Next time, I'll just give you flowers, instead."

The sad (but, completely understandable) state of our relationship is that physical contact is almost zero. She doesn't want to get anything else and I surely don't want to give her anything else, either.

I cannot understand why my Carbon Monoxide values are elevated, too.

What is the accuracy of myco tests? I've been tested and was neg. But those Lyme like symptoms...ugh.

Tested for: hominis, general, fermentans, penetrans, pneumonia all pcr.

I'm taking Buhner herbs that cross over for myco, but getting no where. The fatigue is killing me.

The Dude Abides said...



I cannot understand why my Carbon Monoxide values are elevated, too.

was just reading a study which showed elevated co2 levels promote lyme, elevated o2 levels depress lyme

http://jb.asm.org/content/189/2/437.short

have you considered getting a O2 concentrator?

The Dude Abides said...

k07 said...
i was going to ask about the carbon monixide bc i don't know much about it. Did you smoke or have exposure to second hand smoke? Do you have a monitor in your house? I have never seen anyone else tested for it.

I smoked for a few years, when I was younger. But, it was at least 26 years ago that I quit. I'm not around second-hand smoke at all. I work from home, and, since getting sick four years ago, I've spent nearly all my time inside.

My place is all electric (no natural gas, no fireplace), but I still bought a digital CO monitor and tested each room. The result was "0.0." I even carried the thing in my car for a day or so. Again, the result was "0.0." It seems odd, but, then again, with Lyme, "Odd is the new Normal."

If I recall correctly, didn't you and yours move from North Carolina? How's your new location?

That is very puzzling! I wonder what the heck is causing it?! I like that your doctor is retesting so that you can monitor.

Yes, we moved in August from NC to OH. Your memory is still in good shape! I'm doing ok but I had hoped that location was playing a role in symptoms, which doesn't appear to be the case.

The Dude Abides said...


Anyway, I saw your other post about Mild Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy (HBOT). Would using a soft HBOT chamber be considered "Mild" therapy, while a hard HBOT chamber be considered more aggressive? From what I read, maybe a year ago or more, the soft chambers aren't able to reach the required atmosphere (pressure) to treat Lyme completely. But, I never really investigated the matter. There's an Integrative Doctor in my town that rents the soft chambers so people can use them at home.

actually the opposite!

for lyme you want the soft, mild, hbot, NOT the hard super expensive version.

the folks on the 'mild hyperbaric treatment' thread on lymenet really know their stuff. ask there. Phoiph has the hookup on pricing and financing etc.

The Dude Abides said...

Lapis_29 said...

The Dude Abides said...


Anyway, I saw your other post about Mild Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy (HBOT). Would using a soft HBOT chamber be considered "Mild" therapy, while a hard HBOT chamber be considered more aggressive? From what I read, maybe a year ago or more, the soft chambers aren't able to reach the required atmosphere (pressure) to treat Lyme completely. But, I never really investigated the matter. There's an Integrative Doctor in my town that rents the soft chambers so people can use them at home.

actually the opposite!

for lyme you want the soft, mild, hbot, NOT the hard super expensive version.

the folks on the 'mild hyperbaric treatment' thread on lymenet really know their stuff. ask there. Phoiph has the hookup on pricing and financing etc.

Ah, I see. Thanks for setting me straight. That's actually good that the soft chambers are preferable, as I understand they're less expensive.

It was one of many thing things I did when I first got better.

It definitely makes you feel better the rest of the day after.

k07 said...

The Dude Abides said...

k07 said...
i was going to ask about the carbon monixide bc i don't know much about it. Did you smoke or have exposure to second hand smoke? Do you have a monitor in your house? I have never seen anyone else tested for it.

I smoked for a few years, when I was younger. But, it was at least 26 years ago that I quit. I'm not around second-hand smoke at all. I work from home, and, since getting sick four years ago, I've spent nearly all my time inside.

My place is all electric (no natural gas, no fireplace), but I still bought a digital CO monitor and tested each room. The result was "0.0." I even carried the thing in my car for a day or so. Again, the result was "0.0." It seems odd, but, then again, with Lyme, "Odd is the new Normal."

If I recall correctly, didn't you and yours move from North Carolina? How's your new location?

That is very puzzling! I wonder what the heck is causing it?! I like that your doctor is retesting so that you can monitor.

Yes, we moved in August from NC to OH. Your memory is still in good shape! I'm doing ok but I had hoped that location was playing a role in symptoms, which doesn't appear to be the case.

Well, my memory is in good shape at the moment. Tomorrow, who knows?!?

I'm sorry that you've not seen an improvement in your symptoms thus far. But, it's still early. Perhaps more time is needed. The few times I've been to Ohio was always in the winter. Too cold for me! I hope the winter goes well for you and yours.

dacarte3 said...

The Dude Abides said...

Lapis_29 said...

The Dude Abides said...


Anyway, I saw your other post about Mild Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy (HBOT). Would using a soft HBOT chamber be considered "Mild" therapy, while a hard HBOT chamber be considered more aggressive? From what I read, maybe a year ago or more, the soft chambers aren't able to reach the required atmosphere (pressure) to treat Lyme completely. But, I never really investigated the matter. There's an Integrative Doctor in my town that rents the soft chambers so people can use them at home.

actually the opposite!

for lyme you want the soft, mild, hbot, NOT the hard super expensive version.

the folks on the 'mild hyperbaric treatment' thread on lymenet really know their stuff. ask there. Phoiph has the hookup on pricing and financing etc.

Ah, I see. Thanks for setting me straight. That's actually good that the soft chambers are preferable, as I understand they're less expensive.

It was one of many thing things I did when I first got better.

It definitely makes you feel better the rest of the day after.

Thanks for that feedback, dacarte3. Based on the information from you and Lapis_29, I'm going to check with a local doctor that rents them and see if it's affordable.

dacarte3 said...

Georgia Hunter said...
I've taken some heat in the past from saying this but I'll say it again, most, not all, but most strains of borrelia are fairly easy to kill. We can't get to all of them because of their unique abilities to survive, but many people live with borrelia with no adverse effects. It is co-infections like mycoplasma, babesia, E histolytica, translocated anaerobes, etc, that complicate borrelia infections.

You shouldn't take heat for this. I believe this is pretty accurate. I believe borrelia is so highly sophisticated from an evolutionary standpoint that it has learned much more than other bacteria to minimize disturbance of the host because it needs to the host to survive.

It rather be quiet in the host but then yes, co-infections get in the mix that's where the major problems arise.

If lyme was already there but other factors like co-infections, mold, and/or stress allows the borrelia load to grow, then the person gets ill, gets tested for lyme and says "oh I it's lyme". While maybe not, maybe you always had borrelia in your system, but now it's out of control.

Kind of like yeast/fungus in our gut. We all have a certain level of it. A "healthy" level if you will but other factors can make it grow out of control and then it becomes a big health problem.

The only thing I disagree with that you said is a wording issue. You said that borrelia "has learned much more than other bacteria to minimize disturbance of the host because it needs to the host to survive." IMO, and I could certainly be wrong, but I feel that borrelia MAXIMIZES disturbance of the host because it needs to survive. We actually agree in theory, but my wording is different. I feel borrelia makes everything else in your body go haywire by getting other pathogens to become more virulent. It "waters down our immune response" by overloading it with other bacteria and pathogens. Simply translocating GI bacteria would be sufficient to do this. Our immune response gets so taxed killing everything else that it can't kill all of the borrelia. That is just my opinion but we are on the same page about it surviving.

OK - I'm still alive.
It was close - Sunday got scary and was grabbing for phone to call an ambulance but I must have dropped it and passed out. Encephalitis got bad and literally so much phlegm in lungs I could not take a breath in. Every time this happiness my thoughts go to my 18-yr old nephew who literally suffocated to death this way. His parents never learned of his actual dx...

SX
I've stated multiple times that for me, the psych-neuro sx are much worse than any pain or discomfort from 20 yrs of Lyme & Co..... with ONE exception - the tooth pain from sinus inflammation. The facial pain is bad enough. But pales in comparison. If you've ever had a dry socket from removal of a tooth - you might know what a dry socket is. Imagine that kind of pain in every tooth, every sinus cavity - that's the kind of pain that nearly broke me on Sun - in addition to everything else. Deep sea divers also have a similar pain resurfacing too quickly.

I'm more than a little concerned that these episodes are getting worse. It could indicate that the immune response is higher - or exactly the opposite. I just don't know.

I will definitely take a look at the sx liste PeteZa posted. The more treatment I get under my belt, the easier the symptoms are to recognize and differentiate from everything else that causes sx: this time, I started feeling a stabbing pain in my stomach or upper GI - right in the middle, then my hands got sore, then my large muscles in upper arms were sore, then swollen nodes in my groin and then the sniffles started followed by HEAVY sinus draining/post nasal drip - and then all hell broke loose over the weekend....

TESTING
I don't remember the past couple days - so maybe I already posted this. But I did the DNA Connexions and oddly, NOTHING showed up except the myco was a little elevated so we followed up with bloodwork, which was also only a little abnormal. So, honestly, I moved on to assume it was something else.

Now, in retrospect and after reading up on myco pn more - I'm pretty sure this is what these episodes have been all along. It's possible the recent testing was off because of the heavy GI binding with cholestyramine that I had been doing - just an intuitive thought.

I firmly believe that the testing is seriously flawed and a lot of time this is due to the unreliability of the immune response. I really don't think the IgG vs IgM can be relied upon to tell you anything - what is important is that levels are high. If you're lucky, your body can continue "discovering" new microbes and respond with IgM - this doesn't always indicate a new infection. And you can be very very ill and not have much response at all. In modern times, there are so many disruptive influences on immune function - mainly due to vaccines but also, the Lyme microbe...

BIOENGINEERING
If you read the article I posted (thanks Dude for reposting the link) it suggests a reason why most MDs don't test for it - they're discouraged to, just like they are for Lyme. I don't think it's a coincidence that these are also bioengineered infectious diseases... Read up on Elena Cook's information to understand how and why microbes like these were identified and studied as excellent biowarfare mechanism candidates.

I also wonder if these issues relate somehow to the connections Georgia Hunter & decarte3 are making about the virulence of other pathogens. One noticeable comment from the article I posted was that myco steals the body's resources, which makes my history of crashing when I forget to eat much clearer now.

TREATMENT
No I have not tried treating myco, specifically, as it was not considered a primary issue for me. It has no cell wall so most abx aren't effective - tetracyclines are best and I think many people are benefiting w/ doxy but I've never taken it. I am almost done with 3 yrs of abx IV - I just can't imagine more long-term abx, which is what most of the info on myco suggests it would take. So I think the best thing for me to do is try an herbal approach.

OK - long post. Ready to go lie down again...

-p