horowitz and culture

I don't know where - which Lab you'd go to for this.

It sounds similar to the Galaxy Lab Bartonella test.
They grow a culture to detectable levels to be identified via pcr technology

https://www.sigmaaldrich.com/analytical-chromatography/microbiology/microbiology-products.html?TablePage=112138019




It would probably have to be incubated


Sorry I cant figure out how to make it a link.

Post Edited (goshawk) : 12/12/2017 7:29:48 PM (GMT-7)

A positive culture would be hard to argue with assuming the lab thats culturing them follows proper sterile technique to avoid cross contamination. That said, there is a reason culture is not routinely used for Lyme. Partly because it's not that sensitive. Particularly in the post-dissemination phase. In fact this has been a big part of the Lyme controversy. Many ID's and chronic Lyme deniers don't seem to understand that you need metabolically active organisms if you want to grow them on culture. Hence culture negativity after treatment gives rise to the delusion that the patient is cured when in reality spirochetes are driven into a non-dividing state (persister cell). On top of that you have to consider that Lyme has a much higher affinity for deep tissue than it does for the blood making it hard to obtain proper samples for culture.

"do you just need a drop of blood and a petri dish".

- No. As I pointed out, blood probably isn't the best sample to use for disseminated Lyme. And culture mediums for Lyme are highly specific. The most popular one is BSK-H. Then you would probably need to incubate it at a certain temperature (just look up a few research papers that use BSK-H and read the protocol). That said, if you have the money to spend I'm not saying it's a lost cause. It could be an interesting project. But if you're any sort of budget I don't think it'd be where I put my money

Hey gfields, I am interested in this too, I found some information here:

What is the cost for the test, and how may I pay for it?

There are several test options available for the Spirochete/Borrelia Culture. A more complete description of test options can be found here. The test prices are as follows:

Basic Borrelia Culture $595
Extended Culture Add-On $150
Monoclonal Antibody Add-On $300

www.advanced-lab.com/faq.php

That's actually cheaper than Igenex testing. I wonder why more LLMDs don't go the culture route? Maybe it's less likely to receive a positive result, because you're not guaranteed to have spirochetes in a drop of blood, whereas antibodies are probably ubiquitous in the blood?

gfields said...
That's actually cheaper than Igenex testing. I wonder why more LLMDs don't go the culture route? Maybe it's less likely to receive a positive result, because you're not guaranteed to have spirochetes in a drop of blood, whereas antibodies are probably ubiquitous in the blood?

It's like the PCR vs WB.

The PCR - a positive is great...you know you've got lyme in your blood. BUT, that relatively small sample may not have any in it...doesn't mean you don't have it...just not in that sample.

Whereas the WB that doesn't matter.

Do they have to determine whether it's a lyme spirochete to make a positive diagnosis (ie - DNA testing)? Or, as long as it's a spirochete, they consider it to be lyme. Or, maybe the medium that they put it in only allows for lyme to grow, and therefore it has to be a lyme spirochete.

Hi JohnB2, Do you think the culture from Advanced Labs is a good one?

A lot of this information is over my head.

I think they have financial interests here. They get paid off by the insurance companies. I think that's what the current class action lawsuit is about. Conflict of interest for all these lyme doctors. I'm not sure you can really call them doctors. They're more like fraudsters.

gfields said...
Concerns Regarding a New Culture Method for Borrelia burgdorferi Not Approved for the Diagnosis of Lyme Disease:

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6315a4.htm?s_cid=mm6315a4_w

In this article, the CDC gives no justification for why they do not approve of the New Culture Method. They essentially say, "We're the CDC and we say so."

Basically stating contamination may have skewed research results. I personally don't get it. Labs should be using sterile technique. Why should this be any more suspicious than any other clinical culture procedure? I understand they want it FDA approved... both agencies are on my sh**list this week though