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Advice on switching from antibiotics to herbals

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Posted 5/3/2018 9:30 AM (GMT -5)
So I feel like antibiotics are doing more harm than good for me at this point. Not sure what exactly I’m hoping to hear but wanted some suggestions for how to safely get off antibiotics and switch to more natural treatments as safely and with least amount of herxing possible. I just went through and still recovering from what’s believed to be a babesia relapse. I was on minocycline and malarone when that started and then was put co artem for 3 days. I’ve been in a herxing nightmare. I’m finally stabilizing with taking charcoal between meds. My doctor had said a few appointments ago that she wasn’t sure what to do if I didn’t respond to the malarone and herxed bad on the co artem. I’m suppose to do another round of co artem in week and 2 days but I don’t think I’m up for it.

Anyway I want off the antibiotics bc I’ve been on them for over a year and in some was progressed but in other ways I’ve declined. And I feel like I’m just not actually getting rid of the infection. I think it’s just hiding and has now come out full force. I started my lyme journey with about a year on an herbal protocol-cowden....had to move during that time due to mold. I failed to make progress (my doctor at the time was thinking antibiotics though) and switched doctors to my current doctor and have been treating with antibiotics for over a year. I had made some progress with antibiotics but due to the severity of this herx I believe that it’s hiding out with the antibiotics and may be making things worse. I’ve been dealing with chronic Lyme for 8+ years probably longer bc mine was a slow progression hard to tell when it started. Treating for over 2 years now and so exhausted and just don’t know what path to take next.

I’m looking into another doctor that treats more alternatively that I was referred to but don’t know what to do in the meantime. She told me to also get CSA woodland formula and a friend with Lyme told me about trying that weeks ago for babesia. So I wonder if I should wait till I get that.

If anyone has advice or suggestions anything would me appreciated.
Thanks!
Posted 5/3/2018 10:16 AM (GMT -5)
I think you are on the right path, gather herbs and planning your approach.

I am thinking of a similar transition. I would start the herbs while on abx so there is some overlap. I am sure someone who has done this will chime in.

take a broader look, and you have to incorporate something to heal your gut (from a year on abx), leaky gut etc probiotics, selenium, etc

I believe there are people who did well on alternatives, just keep an open mind and realize you might have to modify your approach a few times before it gets better.
Posted 5/3/2018 11:37 AM (GMT -5)
You mentioned mold. Do you have CIRS or have you been evaluated/treated for CIRS?

If not, I would defintely include that in your next steps.

Have you treated coinfections? If not, ditto on that.
Posted 5/3/2018 1:38 PM (GMT -5)
I was on some herbs while I was on antibiotics, so when I stopped taking the I just added more. I think the important thing to add them one at a time. Maybe you could find a naturopath who does the Buhner protocol. You also could try rife or cold laser therapy.

I feel so much better now that I'm not on antibiotics anymore.
Posted 5/3/2018 2:26 PM (GMT -5)
I had ramped up herbals to full dose and overlapped with ABX for 6 months before weaning down and stopping ABX in March 2015. At that point I think I was at 80% healed. I relapsed 3 months later in May. Took about 3 years to get back to 90%.

Right now I'm pulsing Tetra, Alinia, Diflucan and Lipo OoO for 2 week ON and just ramped up from 3 to 4 weeks OFF. GSE, Hout, JK Plus, Astragalus, Colloidal Silver, ALA, L-Arginine, Milk Thistle, Vit D3 and B12, Mag-Tabs and Probiotics full time. NOW Candida Support only during OFF abx cycle.

Trying to see how long I can stretch the OFF cycle before stopping ABX again. The forth day back on ABX after the first 4 week OFF triggered a pretty sever herx with numerous sx flare-ups. So I still have a ways to go.

Maybe try a few pulse cycles before quiting ABX cold turkey.
Posted 5/3/2018 11:34 PM (GMT -5)

Sarahjane09 said...
I had made some progress with antibiotics but due to the severity of this herx I believe that it’s hiding out with the antibiotics and may be making things worse.

so you are still having severe herxes and u are thinking to stop abx ? hmm
i wouldn't. i would go on until my symptoms are less severe. if u have a lot of bacteria, what do u think will it happen when u will stop abx ? nothing good

about herbal-only treatment. my experience was bad. find a really good LLND for that, there are many that claim they can treat u but few that really know how to. I relapsed quite badly after 2 years herbal (was treated with abx for 6 months before).
Posted 5/4/2018 5:26 AM (GMT -5)
Hi Sarahjane09,
We all have so many different experiences good and bad,either on abx, herbals or both.

Listen to your instincts on this.

Do what you feel is best for you.

We do know our own bodies and health better than anyone.

That all being said, I did switch to all Buhner herbals after about 1 year on ABX/some herbals.

If you choose to do this(considering your herxing history) I wouldst start with the CSA just yet.

I would only start with one individual herb first and at a very low dose to see how you do. Then build up from there.

After a a good few days(even up to a week) of the first herb, then introduce the next herb and so on.

It takes a bit of time but before you know it you will be using more and more herbs.

This way, at least you will know what herbs you tolerate.

Herxing may happen, but you don't want it to be intense herxing as you know that is not good for us.


Others are correct in that you should corect issues of mold and also check into other co infection.

Its important to also clear ammonia and toxins from our brain. There is Jerrnigans Neuro Anntti tox II CNS/PNS and/or Berber and pinella some have used.

I would also research using binders to help with ridding the die off of bacteria from your body that we get when treating.

Activated charcoal , zeobind and I'm sure there are others that can help with this.

Remember to build your immune system up, it is so important to help you get better.

Always check for side effects and contradictions as I am not a medical professional.

I wish you the best and hang in there, you will figure out what path is right for you and healing will come.
Posted 5/4/2018 9:08 AM (GMT -5)
mpost, did you relapse while still taking herbs or had you stopped? also, what herbs were you taking?
Posted 5/4/2018 2:09 PM (GMT -5)

elvin said...
mpost, did you relapse while still taking herbs or had you stopped? also, what herbs were you taking?

i relapsed while taking the herbs. it was a slow steady downstream process that happened over more than one year. so i could see myself worse and worse as time passed while i kept on taking my herbs ...
Posted 5/4/2018 2:24 PM (GMT -5)
Walking by faith- I don’t really know much about CIRS but I was treated for mold over a year+ ago can’t reme exactly when but took cholystyramine maybe some thing else and did a couple other things for it. I now as far I know I live in a mold free environment. It’s a new apartment no signs or issues with mold here. My c4 level has remained highly elevated though on last check. My doctor says that could indicate Lyme or mold.

I was treated for babesia first maybe 2 and half years ago at the time I was presenting with classic babesia symptoms. I improved some with this doc but still a lot of symptoms. My new doc felt I was presenting at that time as more bartonella so was treated more for that as well as Lyme. I improved significantly with her almost felt human again. Struggled with severe mood issues though at times. Then everything started to get bad had a bad herx was symptom panic a lot. At one point my wbc count dropped I stayed off riphampin for awhile in case it was for that and it continued to drop into the 200’s so based on that and other symptoms she suspected a babesia flare and I was put on malarone. I began to improve and my wbc count returned to normal. I was on malarone for awhile when this hit me. Then she had me do co artem bc that was our next plan. I should have never taken it while I was that bad but I wasn’t thinking clearly and still am not.

Definitely my worst herxing by far. Have had very little relief with detoxing and I’ve literally done it all. So I feel like my only choice is to come off. I’m also out of work and have to figure out what to do. I have Fmla but it’s intermittent and I’ve taken more than 3 days which I wasn’t expecting so have to have doc fill out for a specific time frame. Basically this is my worst fear coming true. I have short term disability but I was told I can’t use it till June. Have to wait 6 months after applying. So basically I’m screwed. To feel so ill and then have to deal with this aspect is so overwhelming.

My plan is to stay on minocycline and stop malarone and replace it with the CSA. I haven’t even heard back from my doc I called earlier this week and wanted to talk with her. Her secretary said she would talk to her and get back to me and never did. I’ve also sent messages but she hasn’t responded to last one and the others she didn’t have anything helpful to say. I’m so frustrated and just done. So exhausted of fighting something that no one seems to understand.

Thank you all for your responses. Wishing you all and myself better health
Posted 5/4/2018 2:39 PM (GMT -5)
mpost, were you doing the buhner herbs or something else?
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