GI Health

Current research indicates that Lyme patients suffer from a dysbiosis, or microbial imbalance of the GI tract. It can't be said which bacteria are out of balance because we are all different, but there are some common traits that can be discussed. Lyme patients usually have lower Lactobacillus and Bifidobacterium levels. This lowers our immune response. Possibilities why these bacteria are low could be low manganese levels for Lactobacillus and altered pH with low fiber for Bifidobacterium.

Here are some common bacteria affected by Lyme that contribute to the problem.

Phylum: Firmicute - Bacteria - Lactobacillus, Roseburia, F. prausnitzii, Clostridium, Enterococcus
Phylum: Actinobacteria - Bacteria - Bifidobacterium, Streptomyces, Mycobacterium, Proprionibacteria.

There are literally 100's more of each. These are gram positive bacteria and most contribute to our immune response. They make antibiotic like substances that keep us well. Lyme decreases their numbers and increases gram negative bacteria that can be opportunistic pathogens. These are the Bacteriodetes. There are also Proteobacteria which are also gram negative and pathogenic. In absence of the gram positive bacteria, these nitrogen loving bacteria thrive on the typical America diet. This is a double edged sword as the increased ammonia from these bacteria both help and hurt us.

What we eat helps dictate what bacteria are in our GI tract through nutrient/substance ingestion and pH. This affects butyrate production but that talk is for another time. Chronic inflammation from Lyme can lower the pH in the proximal colon. So instead of a 6.5 pH which favors Bacteriodetes, the pH falls to around 5.5 which favors Rosburia and F. prausnitzii. Eat low carb and you reduce Roseburia 4 fold. Eat more inulin or fiber and you increase Bifidobacterium and F. prausnitzii. Patients with IBS have a decrease in Roseburia and F prausnitzii (good Firmacutes). Crohn's patients have antibodies against flagellar antigens (Roseburia and E rectale.)

Basically Borrelia screws all of this up through altering pH and through damaging the tight junctions in the GI tract. Tight Junctions are the space between cells in the GI tract where nutrients are absorbed into the blood. Borrelia most likely damages or alters these to allow bacteria to advance further into the junction and almost into the blood stream. The body CANNOT allow this to happen so it increases free radical production and ammonia production which raises the pH and alters bacterial growth. To get well, we have to reduce the intestinal pH through diet and pathogen reduction and recover our proper bacterial ratios. There are theories that chronic Lyme is from damaged tight junctions, but I disagree.

Eating animal protein plays a role in all of this but I've yapped enough.

astroman said...
["damaging the tight junctions in the GI tract."] = "leaky gut"

Yes

GeorgiaHunter, if i remember one of your informative previous posts, you believe that less protein is better, correct?

and high fiber, low carb is the direction our diets should take? (most of us probably are doing this anyways, though with my recent mcas diagnosis, nuts and avocados are now out ;/ )

in terms of probiotics, ive been taking vsl....should we be more diligent to find specific probiotiocs to take?

thank you for all you contribute to this board...we are lucky to have you

dbwilco said...
GeorgiaHunter, if i remember one of your informative previous posts, you believe that less protein is better, correct?

and high fiber, low carb is the direction our diets should take? (most of us probably are doing this anyways, though with my recent mcas diagnosis, nuts and avocados are now out ;/ )

in terms of probiotics, ive been taking vsl....should we be more diligent to find specific probiotiocs to take?

thank you for all you contribute to this board...we are lucky to have you

I think for people with Lyme, the more alkaline the food the better. We can overdo it, but the increased acid load caused by chronic inflammation alters our GI flora and that must change. I prefer low protein because I feel lower nitrogen intake is better long term, but I am not ready to say "no protein" even if the research shows it. Animal protein contains high levels of methionine and phenylalanine which can be problematic for Lyme patients.

High fiber is good to improve immune function but improved immune function can increase oxidative stress in some people. That would be a problem. I don't like low carb diets. Plants are carbs and we need all of the plants we can eat. They are usually lower in contaminants than animal protein and help our immune function by increasing our deficient nutrients. I ate organ meat twice a week for a year even though I knew it was higher in cadmium and other heavy metals compared to other meat. I don't eat meat now but once, sometimes twice a week.

Probiotics are helpful but without the proper GI pH, they won't stay and thrive. VSL-3 has probably been studied more than most probiotics and it is a good formulation, I just have a hard time paying that much for it on a consistent basis. I usually recommend Florajen3 because of the cost and viability of the organisms.

I eat a lot of fat, which probably isn't the best thing, but I'm trying to draw a line between reducing oxidative stress and non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. One in 4 people has NAFLD, we can bet being sick that we have the onset of it as well. I can't kill all of my pathogens and eating high fat meals increases our symbiotic relationship. It keeps them alive. I can reduce my fat intake and they start to die, but they never go away. The increase in oxidative stress from eating low fat is pure heck on the body. Some of Dr Fry's patients have gone through this as well. Very difficult to eradicate.

Now that i have finally gotten most of my nutrient levels back on par, fasting seems to be the best thing for me.

georgiahunter

thanks SO much for taking the time to answer those questions...and yes vsl is too expensive...i was eating alot of sauerkraut and fermented foods for the past yr, but now ive got histamine issues, and thats high histamine apparently....

but thanks again...i believe that diet is more important than abx to get us well....just blowing up the bugs doesnt help us if we dont address the damage done

You need to digest proteins for immune cell development though. Dont have to be from meat, but that's most protein dense.

On that note, eating protein and properly digesting/absorbing protein are not always two of the same.

Are you asking me? If so, no, stool is normal.

Yes, that is what I thought about pku. Thanks for posting - your knowledge is always so helpful.

astroman said...
k07- The OAT test, is this a generic term for Organic Acid Test? What lab/test name? thanks

A past test I had covered some of this; the Genova Nutrival.

Yep, OAT is organic acid test. The one I had (ordered by dr h) was Genova Organix test. He never said anything about high phenylacetate and the report just said to increase probiotic.

The Dude Abides said...

k07 said...
Yep, OAT is organic acid test. The one I had (ordered by dr h) was Genova Organix test. He never said anything about high phenylacetate and the report just said to increase probiotic.

Probiotics are good. No, wait...they're bad. Sorry, their good again. Never mind...it depends!

/tinyurl.com/y7mu6l3z

No wonder people are confused!

Lol, I know. I thought I read something that you basically just pee them out. And then there’s the whole saccharomyces cerevisiae possibly being bad. I give.

Georgia Hunter said...

k07 said...

Georgia Hunter said...

dbwilco said...
GeorgiaHunter, if i remember one of your informative previous posts, you believe that less protein is better, correct?

and high fiber, low carb is the direction our diets should take? (most of us probably are doing this anyways, though with my recent mcas diagnosis, nuts and avocados are now out ;/ )

in terms of probiotics, ive been taking vsl....should we be more diligent to find specific probiotiocs to take?

thank you for all you contribute to this board...we are lucky to have you

I think for people with Lyme, the more alkaline the food the better. We can overdo it, but the increased acid load caused by chronic inflammation alters our GI flora and that must change. I prefer low protein because I feel lower nitrogen intake is better long term, but I am not ready to say "no protein" even if the research shows it. Animal protein contains high levels of methionine and phenylalanine which can be problematic for Lyme patients.

High fiber is good to improve immune function but improved immune function can increase oxidative stress in some people. That would be a problem. I don't like low carb diets. Plants are carbs and we need all of the plants we can eat. They are usually lower in contaminants than animal protein and help our immune function by increasing our deficient nutrients. I ate organ meat twice a week for a year even though I knew it was higher in cadmium and other heavy metals compared to other meat. I don't eat meat now but once, sometimes twice a week.

Probiotics are helpful but without the proper GI pH, they won't stay and thrive. VSL-3 has probably been studied more than most probiotics and it is a good formulation, I just have a hard time paying that much for it on a consistent basis. I usually recommend Florajen3 because of the cost and viability of the organisms.

I eat a lot of fat, which probably isn't the best thing, but I'm trying to draw a line between reducing oxidative stress and non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. One in 4 people has NAFLD, we can bet being sick that we have the onset of it as well. I can't kill all of my pathogens and eating high fat meals increases our symbiotic relationship. It keeps them alive. I can reduce my fat intake and they start to die, but they never go away. The increase in oxidative stress from eating low fat is pure heck on the body. Some of Dr Fry's patients have gone through this as well. Very difficult to eradicate.

Now that i have finally gotten most of my nutrient levels back on par, fasting seems to be the best thing for me.

Is phenylacetate similar to phenylanine? I was high on OAT test and was researching. I recently have been eating less protein and seem to feel better. I was a little worried about PKU when I read about phenylacetate but I think I would know if I had that from birth. I’m guessing it is off due to microbiome issues. I may do a stool test (like Thryve) to figure out which good bacteria need increased. I’m guessing though that it’s probably the two you mention above (lacto & bifido).

Actually, what got me looking back at my OAT test was because I recently saw a chiro who performed electrodermal scan and one of my top issues came back as protein metabolism. Which seems in line with OAT test.

Phenylacetate is formed from the breakdown of phenylalanine. If your levels are too high, you have too much phenylalanine or a condition called hyperphenylalaninemia. When you read about this, you will read about a genetic condition that happens at birth. That is not what we have when we have this. Ours is induced by our physiological conditions and following the PKU diet would be beneficial. Candida and metals are often a problem for people who have this.

Are you aware of any supplements that can help lower phenylalanine? I’m trying to research. From what I have read bh4 may lower phenylalanine. So does that mean supplementing with something like methylfolate (which increases bh4) may lower phenylalanine? I am still eating some protein.