Goodby All. Thanks for the Help. No longer treating Lyme

It was this site that led me to investigating Lyme as the cause of my sudden decline in heath. That was about 11 months ago.

At that time I did have Lyme, but then also Bart, Babs, Parasites, fungus. along with all kinds of skin issues. Symptoms too numerous to list like we all have.

I feel I was lucky in that after 2 months of abx and knowing it was not all knocked out, I choose the Cowden Protocol. Going from one abx to the next just didn't make sense to me. I did see 2 LLMD's and while refreshing that have a doc tell you that you are sick, I soon came to the conclusion that they were just shotgunning my treatment. Also read all the books out there. Also appreciate the herbal community.

However in the past few months through a series of events I've come to the conclusion that Lyme is a opportunistic infection. Same with co's and parasites.

I no longer fear ticks. I walk in the woods and have the energy to do so.

I still have some , what is called here, Bart symptoms .Lyme is pretty much tapped down. But I know not it's not Bart but Heavy Metals , specifically Mercury. Can you get yourself better treating Lyme? Sure eating nutrient dense foods helps combat the effects, but your immune system is compromised as long as the mercury is in your body.

Is all Lyme cases due to mercury? Not sure but I'd say this is the case for many Lyme sufferers.

While I know I was infected the real issue is I was/am poisoned. Proof comes quickly when you get all the dental amalgams removed and you start to supplement with the minerals that mercury blocks.

IMHO the ACC (Andy Cutler Chelation) Heavy Metal/Mercury protocol is the only safe one out there..

The reason I'm leaving is several. One, I cannot handle all, what I feel, is bad advice being passed around. Second.. the Lyme culture is a club in itself. I no longer hold to the beliefs talked about on this forum nor the Lyme Literate community The championed LLMD's talked about are in many cases telling us what we want to hear. Many I'm sure well meaning but are playing wack-a-mole with your body. Therefore out of respect for the forum, it's best I don't participate.

People are getting cured on ACC. 100's if not 1,000's of them. All the Moderators are healed or healing.

I'll check back over the weekend for any question or info anybody wants but after that I'd prefer you just PM me.. My email is listed in my profile.

Oh and if you want controversy. Sorry no bio-weapon ticks. (I actually liked that one ) Just the CDC, FDA, AMA , & ADA putting the second most toxic element in the world your body (and your kids) and calling it medicine.

Good luck all. I wish you all the best and thanks for your support

Mark

Post Edited (Mark FW) : 11/10/2018 7:22:28 PM (GMT-7)

Yeah this is kinda like the middle finger to us all tbh. I'm glad you got cured using just the Cowden and ACC protocols, but not every case is the same, in fact I'd say none of them are. There's a lot of good info on these boards and I certainly don't think we are prone to groupthink except for the fact that we share a lot of the same information with each other.

I missed that part. Why on earth would LLMDs tell us what we want to hear? What good would that do us? What does that statement even mean?? If you want to compare a multi-faceted, hard-to-treat disease to playing whack-a-mole that's more your prerogative.

Good luck Mark. ACC caused me to develop a jaw tremor that is still with me, so not for everyone. One of the things I wish I hadn’t tried.

astroman said...
Great that your feeling better.
Here ya on the LLMD's. Some are just repeating the most common things on the internet with limited reason. And Ive met people on ABX for 10 years, they obviously need to look wider and further under other rocks, but its not so obvious to them or whom ever is treating them.

Couldn't agree with this more. There is a saying about someone who does the same thing over and over again expecting different results... I guess some are of the mindset in which they are simply not capable of looking wider and further under other rocks. To each his/her own...

OK let me restate this in a different way.. First I;'m not cured. Like many of your I still have a ways to go.. While I may have tapped down the fatigue effect. Head was chirping all night last night.

So let me re clarify and I'll respond to some of the feedback.

First the purpose of the Forum. A support group yes. And there are advantages to collaboration and empathy, we all need more of this . Myself, I have 2 goals, to get cured and help people. And my way of helping you is to ask you to question the new status quo.

So like many of you, I went to the mainstream medical route and they found nothing.. Then I found the alternate medical group, the LLMD's , who said yes you have Lyme.. Then there's the herbal group. So I though great!!! I can start to treat.. I get the science behind why blood testing testing is flawed. So a clinical diagnosis is made and the treatment starts..

However the success rate/track record is not good.. Most is based on ILADS. And people are going years treating the same way because they're told it's a complex infection. Treatment is all over the place. What works for some does not work for others.

Sorry , I'm not buying it.

When you look at the industry that has popped up around this condition, it's now big money.. People writing books, holding training seminars, promoting products. LOTS pf products.. Many of the sites I've been on are full of trolls. I;'ll admit I don;t see much of it here but I'm sure it's going on.

So while this may be viewed as criticism of the forum and the people of their intent, no,, not at all. However the Lyme or chronically ill person has possibly grabbed unto a flawed approach.. OK so the LLMD's try, they care,, at $300-500 dollars per hr they care. However, they are not curing anybody with any reasonable success.

So why do we hold on to them,, because they're the group that is telling us we're sick.. OK I'll admit it felt really good to get that acknowledgement. But for me 2 or 3 months that wears off. If you can't fix me, then you don't really know whats wrong with me. I know I'm sick.

So after my third LLMD, all with different abx approach and no success rate, time to look elsewhere. Even if it means questioning the condition of Lyme itself as we've been told.

Let's not stop asking the question what it that's making us sick.

Since most of us got our diagnosis from this group (LLMD's), we support and base our feedback and recommendations and in a indirect way,, support it.

Case is point, several weeks ago someone posts that they've been on abx for 2 years, no improvement and no herx. Many jumped in and told him that 2 years was not enough time. Please, think about this.

So I'm sorry if I offended people. That was not my intent..

I wanted to point out there's a protocol out there that does have a high success rate. However It requires you to question what you've come to know as the Lyme condition and the new status quo.

Mark

Post Edited (Mark FW) : 11/11/2018 8:39:09 AM (GMT-7)

First, Lyme is not an opportunistic infection but a highly adapted parasite. That is not so much opinion as it is biological fact. Opportunistic infections are things that live in the soil, or gut, etc and are able to breach immune defenses under rare circumstances and gain access to new niches where they cause disease. On the other hand, Borrelia's entire existence depends on it's residence within a host. It is adapted to the same niche in which it causes illness. Now, that doesn't mean there is not an argument to make that one can manage some sort of symbiosis with the pathogen. That is common in mice who overexpress IL-10 as a means to down regulate inflammation and establish a "truce". But given that humans don't share the kind of evolutionary relationship with Borrelia that mice do, this requires a bit more evidence to tease out the facts in this case. It is likely to be highly individual with some people being much more prone to inflammation, and some much more prone to asymptomatic or mildly symptomatic carrier states.

That said, I do think anything that compromises immunity is obviously counterproductive including heavy metals. But one problem I see here is you are talking about leaving for unhelpful advice and philosophical differences. But in reality, you're doing what most are doing here and projecting a heck of a lot of certainty and bias as to the nature of these diseases. This is actually the reason I haven't been around as much. As I'm applying to med school and having to discuss my illness in my applications I'm being forced to consider a much more objective take on the matter and the frank fact is that I don't have any hard evidence of having Lyme or any coinfection. What I have is a disease that responds dramatically to antibiotics and a century worth of literature supporting a relationship between "cryptic" infections and chronic illness. I'm prepared to defend that line of reasoning at any time. But how am I going to sit here and pretend to know whether this thing is coming from a bad tooth, leaky gut, vector borne illness, my own pets, some bad water I drank overseas ten years ago or some reckless sexual encounter? Or that it's some benign thing that just needs some chelation therapy because I'm immune suppressed by metals? There is enough here to say medicine is broken, but this is the point where we as disease victims hurt ourselves. A forum like this with it's cacophony of diagnoses and cures being shouted from every direction. For every person who thinks someones symptom is Lyme disease, another is absolutely positive it is mold toxicity, and another is of
unquestionable certainty that it's mercury.

Am I doubting that environmental chemicals impact long term health? No. Am I doubting that Borrelia can persist antibiotics? No. That much is clear to em. Am I doubting the nature of coinfection? Not so much. What I have no confidence in is any of us's ability to state clearly and definitively what "the" issue is over a broad range of people. Obviously, there are some universals, but most of these are interlocking processes and to what degree each factor plays in an individuals health WHO KNOWS

Psilociraptor said...


But one problem I see here is you are talking about leaving for unhelpful advice and philosophical differences. But in reality, you're doing what most are doing here and projecting a heck of a lot of certainty and bias as to the nature of these diseases. at any time.

Good point, Psilo

Mark FW said...



Case is point, several weeks ago someone posts that they've been on abx for 2 years, no improvement and no herx. Many jumped in and told him that 2 years was not enough time. Please, think about this.


Mark

Definitely 2 years on abx - there should be a herx....or improvement...or both. I don't recall that thread...with many people telling a member that it wasn't enough time....and to maintain the status quo.

That would have been helpful for some to see posted in the first place, something helpful vs disrespecting other peoples issues.

The more informed one is on a narrow but important subject matter does not help across the whole horizon. Its no different than a PHD scientist that who doesnt understand some simpler things. I work in science and see this almost daily, how did some get this degree, cracker jack box? Plus, like with lyme, lab vs theory doesn't always match up.

So being smart/read up on mercury does not make one the know it it all with all things lyme.

With mercury or other metals the question is WHY is it so huge a prob in some people?...................genes and ability for certain detox pathways to work properly. Genes are the reason with many peoples issues that are not problems for everyone. Most all have some gene defects for all the different body systems.

Genes are everything despite some people not "getting" this. Ive studied my genes and some do match what was going on, less puzzling than at first glance. Was info overload at first. Not everyone has the time for doing this either.

So you could say the big issue with "mercury lymies", (mermies, lycuryies?) is neither, its really their genes.

Honey Badgers eat whole scorpions. Poison! They pass out a few min then get back going. Some super detoxing in their genes make this possible. Other mammals obviously cant do this.

Post Edited (astroman) : 11/11/2018 2:59:53 PM (GMT-7)

Wish you the best on your healing journey and remember to come back and post again in the future to let us know how things are going.

We all may have different paths to healing, but we are in this fight together.

More than anything...this forum is here for support. No one should ever suffer or feel alone when facing these infections.

We are here for those most desperate moments that many, if not all of us have faced at one time or another.

Take care.

🤣 Bye!

>>So after my third LLMD, all with different abx approach and no success rate, time to look elsewhere. Even if it means questioning the condition of Lyme itself as we've been told.

Yup that's about where I'm at after 3 1/2 years of abx. I hope I didn't destroy my microbiome too much at this point. Am I better than when I started this journey? Sure. Did the abx help me get there? Yes but I'm not exactly sure the specifics. There may be other ways to healing besides napalming your system that are less harmful.

Lyme and other pathogens do exist in many people who have no symptoms. I think they did a study of 100 kids in the Bronx in NYC and 75 of them tested positive for lyme antibodies. Now how the heck is that possible?

To me the core of it comes down to the immune system and how it responds to these pathogens. For some it doesn't freak out for others its hypersensitive. I think I fall in the latter category. I will never get rid of every single bacteria floating around in my body so I need to do something about trying to chill my immune system out.

Compromising the immune system is really a stupid idea when you think about it. This is what turns a lot of people off from doing abx.

Always searching so next step for me is maybe trying out LDI as the explanation behind it makes a whole lot more sense to me than many other modalities.