B12 supplementation

Hello everyone (again),

Recently I ran a few "basic" blood tests, among which b12, it turned out my b12 is high, the reference range is 197 - 771, and my result is 914.2. I have been regularly taking B Complex #6 by Thorne for months, and only recently started skipping it (I kind of felt I don't need it or just got lazy). It contains all of the B vitamins, focusing on B6 (100mg, 7143% NRV pyridoxine, pyridoxal 5'-phosphate) and B12 (100μg methylcobalamine, 4000%NRV). My LLND thinks it is important for detoxification and isn't concerned by my results, thinking it is only slightly elevated, and wants me to continue supplementing. I also have to mention that I eat meat regularly, and even organ meats.

Now I am also wondering what my B6 values must be...

This got me questioning supplementing overall. Is b12 a part of your regular supp regimen, and what supplements in general do you take regularly?

Hello, Zimica:

To answer your specific questions:

Q. Is Vitamin B-12 part of your supplement regimen?
A. No. Not any longer.

Q. What supplements do you take regularly?
A. The only supplement I take regularly is low-dose, extended-release melatonin at bedtime. A supplement I take infrequently (maybe 1-2 doses some weeks, or I may skip weeks at a time) is magnesium citrate. Otherwise, I no longer supplement regularly.

Regarding Vitamin B-12, it seems the liver can store it for [up to] years at a time, despite it being a water-soluble vitamin. If it's stored -- and, how much might be stored -- will likely vary between people.

"Unlike most other vitamins, B12 is stored in substantial amounts, mainly in the liver, until it is needed by the body. If a person stops consuming the vitamin, the body’s stores of this vitamin usually take about 3 to 5 years to exhaust."
Source: https://www.merckmanuals.com/home/disorders-of-nutrition/vitamins/vitamin-b12

Other sources:

https://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements-vitamin-b12/art-20363663
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/nbk114329
https://www.vitacost.com/blog/food-nutrition/uncategorized/which-vitamins-are-stored-in-your-body.html

One of my previous posts was about the potential toxicity of ingesting high doses of fat-soluble vitamins (A, D, E, and K) on an ongoing basis in some people. This is why I chose to stop regular, ongoing supplementation. I may resume ongoing supplementing at some point, if there's compelling evidence to do so.

Here are three (of many) supplements that I've previously used. If I were to supplement again, I would probably choose one of these (depending on the need) and take half-doses every few days.

https://www.thesynergycompany.com/super-b-complex
https://www.thesynergycompany.com/multi-vita-min
https://www.thesynergycompany.com/vmh-men

The manufacturer offers a Women's formulation that includes herbs, too.

Good luck.
Dude

This supplementation thing seems to be a Pandora's box, in some cases even with testing one cannot tell with certainty whether they're deficient.
Back when I was very ill and very weak I was taking all kinds of supplements religiously, but now as I feel better I kind of got tired from all the pills.
I used to take regularly a probiotic, Mg, B complex, vit D (or cod liver oil), iron, vit C, hyaluronic acid, coQ10, lion's mane, selenium, ashwagandha etc etc.. but this never ending list now seems more toxic to me than beneficial, I just want to eat good quality food and see how it goes.

It is interesting for me to read that someone takes even magnesium only sporadically as this is the one supplement I still tend to take fairly regularly. It's a relief to see other people cut back on these things too.

A regular blood test that shows high b-12 could also mean you aren't actually able to absorb it or use it properly. Perhaps you are MTHFR and can't break down the folate to methylfolate...they work together. You should have your homocysteine levels checked. If they are high, then you definately aren't absorbing enough be. It's like a puzzle. The b-12 has to be broken down to be useful. Most doctors don't know this unfortunately.

As far as storing a lifetime of B-12, if you are chronically ill fighting pathogens, you use an incredible amount of B-12, much more than a normal person, so you do deplete your stores way faster than someone who isn't sick. I have a B-12 deficiency and I don't store B-12 (I have the MTRR mutation), so I have to take it regularly.

If you really want to know what is inside your cells vs just floating in your bloodstream and then getting pissed out, you have to get the Micronutrient test from Spectracell Labs. I was fascinated with my results. Despite a ton of supplementation, I was low in all the stuff that lyme loves to eat....I need to retest. It's been 3 years since I took it. Very curious to see what my levels are now.

Zimica,

As you weigh the various opinions, here are two posts that I made in other threads that I've copied here:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Regarding SpectraCell, the following is worth considering:

Testing For Micronutrients
https://youtu.be/fzdyjvabor0?t=10m58s

I e-mailed SpectraCell about this - twice - and they did not respond to either inquiry.

The entire video is worth watching. The part about micronutrient testing is only about nine minutes long at starts at 5m 11s into the video. https://youtu.be/fzdyjvabor0?t=5m11s

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

astroman said...
There are eleven versions of this [MTHFR] gene.

...and, some 20,000 total genes in the human genome.

Here is a podcast with Ben Lynch, ND being interviewed on the topic of MTHFR, "Dirty" Genes, and more:

Dirty Genes, Overcoming Disease, & the Dangers of Folic Acid with Ben Lynch, ND
https://www.theenergyblueprint.com/dirty-genes-dr-ben-lynch
https://youtu.be/iakm6vfu79g

In this podcast, you’ll learn:

• What dirty genes are and how they affect us
  
• Which fatal disease the MTHFR gene protects you from
  
• Why folic acid can be dangerous to your health
  
• The first step in supporting your MTHFR gene
  
• Why Dr. Lynch was approached by a manufacturer, asking him to remove articles about folic acid
  
• How your mitochondria protect and keep you alive
  
• Why the GST and GPX (detox) genes are important for your health
  
• Why trying to fix your dirty genes is counterproductive
  
• The right way to take supplements for health and energy
  
• The first step you need to take to successfully clean your dirty genes

This is not to say don't get tested. Rather, it's about being a more informed consumer.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As cr3ativegirl noted, we're all different and dealing with varying issues. I agree with her, 100%.

When discussing matters with your healthcare provider(s), don't ignore your own inner wisdom and how you feel. It took me some time to stop regular, ongoing supplementation. As stated in my previous post, if I found a compelling reason to resume doing so, I'm sure I would.

But, supplements are not completely harmless.

Consumers must vet companies and ensure they're trustworthy and putting into the bottle what's listed on the label. And, perhaps more importantly, that they're not including anything that isn't listed. This is where Good Manufacturing Practices (GMP) and third-party verification can help.

The Food Supplement That Ruined My Liver
https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-45971416

In addition to knowing what is (and isn't) in supplements, there's the matter of amounts. As one example, there's often high doses of Vitamin A in supplements. In the following lecture, Dr. Michael Klaper talks about supplement manufacturers using high concentrations of an isolated carotene (e.g. Beta Carotene) and states "...at that point, you've created a drug. And, it's got pharmaceutical effects...not all of which are good."

What I Wish Someone Had Told Me In Medical School about Nutrition
https://youtu.be/ivlaqjimt9w?t=34m2s

This is just one example (Vitamin A), but it applies to other compounds, too.

There's also the fact that what's in supplements is not the same as what's in whole, unprocessed foods. Perhaps some of the compounds are the same (though, they are more likely analogues), but eating a whole, unprocessed food will provide many hundreds (if not thousands) of compounds that are not contained in supplements. And, in the amounts/ratios/forms to which our bodies are accustomed. A Lycopene capsule is not equivalent to a tomato.

It's a compelling notion to test for something, find what appears to be low or missing, and then take something to remedy it. But, it's not always so simple or straightforward.

Can a person manipulate lab values? Sure. But, does that lead to improved long-term outcomes? From what I've read/heard/learned from people who study this stuff for a living, the answer is that it usually doesn't. If anything, these same folks state it can be just the opposite.

Just so the point doesn't get lost, supplementation should be tailored to the individual and performed under the guidance of a qualified person who is knowledgeable and uses the best available evidence to support their recommendations. Supplements should do just that...supplement...as healthy a diet and lifestyle as possible. Meanwhile, the practitioner should also be looking for root causes, how to correct them, and plan to get the patient off as many supplements (and medications) as possible for the particular individual.

These are my current opinions, based on my own experience. I'm not a Doctor, Nurse, or other Healthcare Provider, so keep that in mind. Good luck on your path of finding what works best for you.

Best wishes,
Dude

You all may be forgetting that probiotics can raise b12 too

It may be coincidence, but every patient I've ever dealt with that had high B-12 levels was supplementing B-12.