My Lyme symptoms started days after a flu vaccine 9 years ago. I don’t get vaccines anymore. If you have Lyme, you don’t have a normal immune system. That can make a big difference in how your body and immune system respond or react to vaccines, IMO.

In defense of anti-vaxxers as you call them, if doctors and medical authorities acknowledged that there may be unforeseen repercussions in certain people that could trigger a sort of autoimmune or dysfunctional immune response for reasons they have not identified and do not understand, then people could make more informed decisions about the risks they are willing to take without being persecuted by people who don’t believe in their belief that certain or any vaccines may be harmful to them.

That’s what I think.

The thing is clearly vaccines with kids are quite effective. It seems like diseases like measles are now coming back to the country because of anti vax families. I imagine it could only get worse over time. Some people even now get vaccines behind their parents.

I get it as a sick adult though but I feel the evidence against giving kids vaccines is quite faulty and cherry picked. I don't pretend to know everything though.

Or are measles coming back because the vaccines are not that effective and our kids immune systems are weakened by over vaccination?

Kids now a days are not even given the chance to build immunity except via vaccines.

I had measles and German measles as a kid, wish I had not but I did and survived.

Just want you to consider the other side of the coin. Pharma, et al, are motivated by money, not health. I had the 5-6 common vaccines as a kid, like polio. I didn't have a choice. How many vacinnes do the current kids have to have before the age of 3 years old? 30-60, and multiples in one shot, seriously...that doesn't even pass the common sense test.

Also why are the anti-vax group getting demonized by pharma, Congress and the media? The majority of kids are forced to be vaccinated for public school attendance. Let's say 80%, if not more. How can the anti-vax group be blamed for an out break of measles, why does it matter since majority of kids have been vaccinated for measles if vaccines are so wonderful? Just asking. Seems only one narrative is touted.

My experience with lyme has altered my view of vaccines and pharma meds, and modern medicine policies. Our Lyme experience has forced us to look at the ugly side of pharma, education,politics, etc. How many times did conventional Drs tell us there was nothing wrong with us, how many times did they and we trust the testing (then finding it inadequate, biased or just wrong), how many examples of Drs successfully treating children/adults non-conventional, (which could include some pharma). How many more have to die, or languish in the cesspool that is Lyme and coinfections because of the current medical policies/narrative.

Sorry but i have learned the hard way to be extremely sceptical of modern medical practices/policies. I don't trust their motivations are altruistic, their testing practices are accountable. It breaks my heart to see/hear so many people are sick or at least unwell. I just don't believe them cause `they` say something is true. I seek to understand why others disagree, i seek honorable, proven experience or testing that is recreatible.

Look at the responses in this lyme forum, we are all different, from different locations, yet we have very similar experiences...i believe the general consensus of this forum and my own experiences...,i use to believe the medical narrative that Lyme is hard to get and easy to treat....do you still believed that narrative? This is why I have reservations regarding the childhood vaccine narrative.

Just as I would not want people who have not walked in my shoes to demonize or judge me for my treatment choices regarding Lyme and coinfections, i will give the anti-vaxers the benefit of the doubt because I have not walked in their shoes. I find it hard to believe a parent would withhold anything they felt would be good for their child. But I also believe they would fight to the death to protect their child from something they believed to be bad for them.

Knowledge is key to making good decisions, i don't think the medical system cares about truth anymore. They will demonize anyone, and not allow them to have an unmolested voice that suggest a narrative contrary to modern medical policies. Over the last few decades they have made too many deadly mistakes, told half truths or outright lies. It's not just Lyme.

This is not meant to be argumentative, just where I have arrived after 15 years of dealing with the medical/insurance fields as it relates to Lyme and coinfections. Why would I think these issues are isolated to the Lyme experience. My .02

I just wanted to add to the conversation with my experience. I’ve had lyme, Bart and Babs for almost six years. Every year in the fall I receive a flu shot. My wbc has been chronically low (2.1 to 3.7) since becoming sick and knock on wood I’ve not gotten the flu. I know that my experiences are unique to me and not the same as many of you. I just wanted to offer my experiences with receiving the vaccine. My newest llmd was reluctant to allow me to have the shot (due to low wbc) but I let her know that I have never had a bad reaction so she thankfully supported my decision.

Roxie said: “I don't think the medical system cares about truth anymore.”

- I agree with that statement and not just about Lyme either. I feel like most world “systems” do not care about truth anymore. There seems to be a worldwide shift toward enforcing uniformity of beliefs of all kinds where free thinking and dissenting views are no longer valued and are now being shut down and silenced. It’s not an accident. The Bible refers to this type of thing happening.

“I just don't believe them cause `they` say something is true. I seek to understand why others disagree, i seek honorable, proven experience or testing that is recreatible.”

- Same here. I was sick and talking to every conventional doctor I had about my multitude of symptoms and describing what happened to me for 6.5 years before going to a Functional MD who told me (albeit reluctantly) about the inaccuracies in Lyme testing. It was only then that I was able to uncover the truth.

The most alarming aspect to me was that with the exception of my current PCP, who I went to 2 years into symptoms, was the ONLY doctor who bothered to send me anywhere (Mayo) to hopefully get answers or actually test me for Lyme. I’m sure he didn’t know about the testing inaccuracies either.

The complete apathy and lack of interest from other doctors to dig deeper for answers or even try to connect the dots struck me as very odd. I did not know that was par for the course with most doctors these days. I delusionally thought it was a doctor’s job and priority to get to the bottom of things and find the root cause. I remember thinking that in MY JOB, if someone came to me with a question or problem I didn’t know how to solve, I felt it was my duty to seek answers and guidance until I got the answers I believed were accurate and provide them with the correct answers. I expected doctors to perform their duties in like manner. I was bitterly disillusioned. I did not realize that in the majority of cases, a person would have to seek out a Functional or Integrative MD to “look upstream for the root cause” of symptoms. That all the “real” doctors do is write prescriptions for pharmaceutical drugs to treat whatever symptoms you have or do surgery if you have something they can justifiably operate on. I seriously had no idea that was the way things were. I was in my late 30’s early 40’s and woefully naive. I have lost my innocence thanks to chronic illness from Lyme.

There are more than two sides to the vaccine debate, and I'm pleased to see how many people here have a more nuanced perspective on it, rather than just "pro" and "anti." I guess that's not surprising, given that we know better than anyone the limits of Western medicine and the massive dysfunction of the medical industry. People can be in favor of vaccines as a concept but still be distrustful of the pharmaceutical companies that manufacture and promote them. People can support vaccines but still prefer not to give 30 of them to infants in the first year of life. The fear of being labeled and vilified as "anti-vaxxers" silences any real demand for safer ingredients, better safety studies, and better alternatives.

As far as I have read and discussed with my doctors, vaccines are effective for people with immune systems that are functioning normally. That does not apply to us. Compromised immune systems also should not be exposed to live virus vaccines (like the flu vaccine nasal spray).

Last summer I sliced myself open on dirty metal (a cliche, I know) so I got my overdue tetanus booster vaccine. (Shout out to the ease of the CVS Minute Clinic for vaccines.) I was nervous about it because of years of Lyme and ME, worried about a relapse. I did not exactly relapse, but I had a bad week of muscle cramps, migraines, and pain along my spine. This still happens from time to time, but had never happened before that vaccine. I have not had any other vaccines in the course of my chronic illness.

Last fall my (basically healthy) child developed a frightening medication allergy (to a needed medication she had taken without issue previously) after getting the flu shot. Her totally conventional pediatrician even agreed that the adjuvants in the vaccine had sensitized her system to any perceived invading substances, causing the allergy to develop. I wonder how common this is, and people just don't make the connection. She had no other allergies previously, and never had reacted to a vaccine before (given on an alternative schedule) including the flu shot.

Good luck, whatever you decide.

My view is similar to what Sara described.

My son's Lyme symptoms exploded after he got flu and meningitis vaccines last fall. In hindsight, his system was already overloaded for several reasons and the vaccines were too much for him at that time. He is the only one of my three kids who had issues with vaccines as babies. Something about his system doesn't handle them well.

I just looked at the vaccine schedule and counted 35 before the age of 24 months. I stopped counting after that. I'm not talking about the number of shots, I'm counting each administration of a vaccine (in some cases they include multiple vaccines in one shot. Also they repeat administration of the same vaccine multiple times(2-3). That is 35 administrations of various vaccine (wether the same vaccine multiple times of different vaccine in one shot, the immune system is activated to each one). 35 sounds like a lot to me by the age of 2 years, imo.

Flu vaccines are unnecessary IMO. Disease vaccines are important I believe. Vaccines do not cause autism, that is just Facebook trash propagated by angry parents who "lost" the genetic lottery (not really because there is nothing wrong with autism). All the anti-vac autism stuff is based on emotional arguments and really angers me. I'm glad they're trying to prevent that spread of mis-information. It's not a matter of opinion.

Thank you Israeli, i think you expressed my similar perspective but that I could. I'm fighting a flare up so I'm very reactionary, sensitive, trigger easily, whatever ya call it.

I'm just tired of people being harmed when I believe there have to be better methods. You said not against vaccines but maybe not so many in such a short time for young children. My feeling also. You said that it seems your child was altered after a vacinne...i think that quite possible since rarely do they had you a list of ingredients and the verified studies that substantiate efficacy.

What fact are you referencing Noah, all i saw in your response was your opinion. If you have facts please state the reference and provide a link so we can all be as enlightened about certain vaccines as you are. I want to know the facts and be informed about these vaccines.

Roxie,

I have been so lucky with my first and present llmd. They fully understand how important it is to honor their patients thoughts and beliefs. Honestly I don't think that I would stick with an llmd very long if she/he did not consider or value my input. My feeling is that any llmd that requires a patient to do exactly as they say is probably trying to sell something. For me the bottom line is that no llmd has a definitive cure and thus should be open to what their patients bring to the table. As one of my llmd's indicated, it's like we are all in preschool when it comes to Lyme and friends. I wish it were different but this seems to be the case. We are all doing are best to wade through modalities that will either work or not. It is my hope that everyone here has an open minded llmd that listens and supports them during these challenging times. Although this entire experience has been brutal, it's comforting to know we are all on the same team and searching for answers that will eventually bring healing and end to this roller coaster ride.