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Back pain won’t go away

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Posted 7/7/2019 12:53 PM (GMT -5)
Hi all! I feel like at this point my lyme has healed, I feel very lucky to be able to say that and I’m sorry to everyone still dealing with this terrible disease. I only have one remaining symptom and that is low back/SI joint pain and stiffness. This was one of my first symptoms, it got better on antibiotics a bit, but has just persisted since then. I followed the Bruner protocol a lot during my treatment, and just looked up his lyme arthritis suggestions, but they are lengthy. Just wondering if y’all have anything that you have found works better for persistent joint pain. I truly think my infection is gone but it’s the damage that has remained.

Thank you
Posted 7/7/2019 1:22 PM (GMT -5)
I was going to list a bunch of suggestions, but I'm curious what you already have tried for the joint pain. Glad to hear you are doing well otherwise!
Posted 7/7/2019 1:56 PM (GMT -5)

saraeli said...
I was going to list a bunch of suggestions, but I'm curious what you already have tried for the joint pain. Glad to hear you are doing well otherwise!

I have been trying to alter my diet to be lower carb hoping that might help overall inflammation. As far as supplements there isn’t anything I’m still taking consistently. I was taking an msm/glucosamine/chrondroitin and magnesium, omega3 and vitamin C regularly during treatment. It may have been dumb to stop those things when I felt better!
Posted 7/7/2019 2:12 PM (GMT -5)
The symptoms you named sound strongly suggestive of gut pathogens. Think parasites, ropeworm, Candida. Also evaluate for mold exposure.

Candicid Forte has been a very beneficial supplement for me in this regard. Mimosa pudica has helped some, too. Right now, I’m doing both simultaneously. Passed the largest ropeworm I have seen in months this morning.

Ropeworm caused a lot of back pain, especially lower back.
Posted 7/7/2019 2:23 PM (GMT -5)
I have lower back stiffness for two years with Lyme I still do not nearly as bad. One of the things that helped me a lot is putting my back through flexion and extension. Sometimes 50x times a day. Think cat and camel yoga pose. You want to move your back through its motion without loading it. Once your back stiffens its very hard to get the ROM back.
Posted 7/7/2019 2:26 PM (GMT -5)
Pt tends to focus on strengthening the core in a neutral spine which isn't particularly helpful unless you have some type of disc injury.
Posted 7/7/2019 2:34 PM (GMT -5)
If your intuition is right and this is residual damage, then I would suggest supplements that repair joints and cartilage - glucosamine, omega 3s, etc. A good physical therapist, craniosacral therapist, chiropractor, or massage therapist might be able to help you figure out exactly what is damaged and why it's hurting - inflammation, misalignment, spasm, etc. Acupuncture might also be something to try. People also find that infrared light pads or infrared saunas help with pain.

Good luck!
Posted 7/7/2019 3:52 PM (GMT -5)

WalkingbyFaith said...
The symptoms you named sound strongly suggestive of gut pathogens. Think parasites, ropeworm, Candida. Also evaluate for mold exposure.

Candicid Forte has been a very beneficial supplement for me in this regard. Mimosa pudica has helped some, too. Right now, I’m doing both simultaneously. Passed the largest ropeworm I have seen in months this morning.

Ropeworm caused a lot of back pain, especially lower back.

Oh wow ok, I will definitely keep that in mind and ask my lyme doctor about it. Thanks!
Posted 7/7/2019 3:54 PM (GMT -5)

skinny_joe said...
I have lower back stiffness for two years with Lyme I still do not nearly as bad. One of the things that helped me a lot is putting my back through flexion and extension. Sometimes 50x times a day. Think cat and camel yoga pose. You want to move your back through its motion without loading it. Once your back stiffens its very hard to get the ROM back.

I’ve been doing cat camel but not nearly 50x a day, I will increase how much I’m doing! Thank you!!
Posted 7/7/2019 3:56 PM (GMT -5)

saraeli said...
If your intuition is right and this is residual damage, then I would suggest supplements that repair joints and cartilage - glucosamine, omega 3s, etc. A good physical therapist, craniosacral therapist, chiropractor, or massage therapist might be able to help you figure out exactly what is damaged and why it's hurting - inflammation, misalignment, spasm, etc. Acupuncture might also be something to try. People also find that infrared light pads or infrared saunas help with pain.

Good luck!

Ok I’ll start taking all those supplements again, and I booked a massage appointment, hopefully it will be better soon! Thank you!!
Posted 7/7/2019 4:13 PM (GMT -5)

Penny567 said...


I’ve been doing cat camel but not nearly 50x a day, I will increase how much I’m doing! Thank you!!

I didnt start at 50x a day no where close. I usually stretch out my hamstrings and quads 4-5 times a day and do a set of cat and camels then.
Posted 7/7/2019 4:15 PM (GMT -5)

skinny_joe said...

Penny567 said...


I’ve been doing cat camel but not nearly 50x a day, I will increase how much I’m doing! Thank you!!

I didnt start at 50x a day no where close. I usually stretch out my hamstrings and quads 4-5 times a day and do a set of cat and camels then.

Ok that makes sense, thanks!
Posted 7/7/2019 4:57 PM (GMT -5)
Ive had to rebuild pretty much my whole body. I was a pretty hard core competitive athlete for 30 or so years, and tried many things and learned a lot on body mechanics from clinicians (all the types) "practicing" on me lol..

YES , CORE is key- thats what everything is tied to. All other muscles are stronger..........its a tug of war...so a strong core is essential. A strong core is "balanced" and does not necessarily mean abs of steel.

And if you have any lower vertebrae issues (many people do) this SI stuff is more common, and then back strength is even more important.

But .....what some PT's do not concentrate on enough is all the tendon ends that attach and influence the core. INSTEAD, they take a short cut to OVER-strengthen the core, which works to some extent but does not take care of remaining tendon tension pulling on it.

****First step is to find the tension and manually losen it- trigger point release or slower myofacial release is more effective than stretching in many cases. You cant stretch a knot or muscle adhesion. Tie a knot in a sock, now stretch it, you cant- kind of the same theory.***

An SI issue is usually a tension imbalance from muscles and or tendons. This can take a while to fix. Chiros can snap it back in place, its temporary but becomes adjusted longer the more you do this. That still might not fox the issue of uneven tension which needs to be found/looked for.

When we are weak from this, our bodies structure can take on a new "set" you which is obviously not good. What happens if you leave a garden hose wound up for 5-10 years- it doesn't like to straighten until you give it time and help or force it.

This does not mean you still have lyme 100%.. So yes it can be damage and its reversible but takes more effort and more ideas with some individuals. I had a lot of tissue damage.
Posted 7/7/2019 5:08 PM (GMT -5)

astroman said...
Ive had to rebuild pretty much my whole body. I was a pretty hard core competitive athlete for 30 or so years, and tried many things and learned a lot on body mechanics from clinicians (all the types) "practicing" on me lol......This does not mean you still have lyme 100%.. So yes it can be damage and its reversible but takes more effort and more ideas with some individuals. I had a lot of tissue damage.

Thank you so much for that response! That gives me a lot to think about. I think I was mentally done with dealing with everything so once I mostly felt better I stopped being as diligent as I should have been with restrengthening. I definitely feel like I have areas that are over-tensioned especially in my hips, which probably contributes. I will start on a strengthening and stretching routine ASAP! I’m wondering if yoga in combination with back, hip and core strengthening would work. And I booked a massage appointment for next week. Thank you greatly!
Posted 7/7/2019 5:19 PM (GMT -5)
Look up "Thereacane" and LaCross ball core/ hip myofacial release on you tube.

Your glutes are most likey not the same tension wise Left vs right, thus the SI "twist". One leg will be functionally shorter (temporary)with this too, creating a slight limp and "body mechanics confusion" in your gate.

Tight hammies, Quads, IT band (outer thigh), glutes, inner thigh muscles all need to be looked at / evaluated. Laying on a Lacross ball you can compare sides, this is hard to detect with deeper muscles though- the theracane works better for that.

Any topical with Arnica Montana in it will help after working on your muscles. Any topical with magnesium will too , there is mag cream out there.
Posted 7/7/2019 5:23 PM (GMT -5)
Sleep is hard from this if it creates pain from laying there too long. .

If you lay in bed for 6-9 hrs but wake so stiff you cant move, this is pointless.

If you have the option of less time in bed...but two or three times (long naps in addition to night sleep of like 5-6 hrs) works better in healing.

Dont forget cold packs after working the muscles.
Posted 7/7/2019 5:48 PM (GMT -5)

astroman said...
Sleep is hard from this if it creates pain from laying there too long. .

If you lay in bed for 6-9 hrs but wake so stiff you cant move, this is pointless.

If you have the option of less time in bed...but two or three times (long naps in addition to night sleep of like 5-6 hrs) works better in healing.

Dont forget cold packs after working the muscles.

Yes it is the worst in the morning and then is a bit better by evening. I will look up those things you mentioned. Can i ask if you made any dietary changes that helped? I keep playing around with lower carbs, less processed carbs and more healthy fat/protein. I haven’t been doing it long enough to really tell, but I figured the lower the systemic inflammation the better
Posted 7/7/2019 8:11 PM (GMT -5)
If you think it’s arthritis - then I would get imaging done - an mri .

I have read a few times that sometimes the last symptom to go is the first one you got.

That seems to be the case for me and my nerve pain - upper back, left arm and hand.

Also how long since you stopped treatment - perhaps there’s some leftover inflammation that will get better over time.
Posted 7/7/2019 8:15 PM (GMT -5)

skinny_joe said...
Pt tends to focus on strengthening the core in a neutral spine which isn't particularly helpful unless you have some type of disc injury.

My PT works on range of motion/flexibility as well as strengthening, trigger points, etc.
Posted 7/7/2019 8:17 PM (GMT -5)

Girlie said...
If you think it’s arthritis - then I would get imaging done - an mri .

I have read a few times that sometimes the last symptom to go is the first one you got.

That seems to be the case for me and my nerve pain - upper back, left arm and hand.

Also how long since you stopped treatment - perhaps there’s some leftover inflammation that will get better over time.

I’ve been off of antibiotics since middle of May, I continued to take some herbs after that and am still doing some herbs not everyday. I’ll talk with my doctor about an mri, I see her again in a few weeks. Thanks
Posted 7/7/2019 11:24 PM (GMT -5)

Penny567 said...

astroman said...
Sleep is hard from this if it creates pain from laying there too long. .

If you lay in bed for 6-9 hrs but wake so stiff you cant move, this is pointless.

If you have the option of less time in bed...but two or three times (long naps in addition to night sleep of like 5-6 hrs) works better in healing.

Dont forget cold packs after working the muscles.

"Yes it is the worst in the morning and then is a bit better by evening. I will look up those things you mentioned. Can i ask if you made any dietary changes that helped? I keep playing around with lower carbs, less processed carbs and more healthy fat/protein. I haven’t been doing it long enough to really tell, but I figured the lower the systemic inflammation the better

"

I've tried/had more than a few different diets on this journey. I did low carb / low sugar when gut candida was rampant (per symptoms and test). It helped my gut but not body pain. Did paleo for two years, only helped my gut.. Tried low/ minimal oxolate diet- nothing. Then I had a lab test my blood with 170 common American foods and additives (Leap MRT test) two years after my lyme treatment. This helped my autoimmune thyroid as far as body pain- I was already improving so hard to tell if this helped, others claim it does. I actually learned about this test from a PT.

Chiros know a lot about SI joints and can feel if they are out of place - and adjust it into place. Regular conventional medicine will argue that SI's cant get out of position- they are wrong, all it takes is a little to create the tension and then pain. A chiro will prob do an X-ray first for a baseline, A Dr will ask for a MRI.

Many people with back pain also have slight herniated disc(s), many people not in pain have this too. Not the end of the world as they can heal in time and not necessarily mean you will be in pain.
Posted 7/9/2019 8:17 AM (GMT -5)
You may try looking at Egoscue do a google search for it. Hes got a book "Pain Free: A Revolutionary Method for Stopping Chronic Pain" most libraries have it. Its a series of simple exercises to help align your body. I went to one of the clinics before I knew why (Lyme) my muscles were so tight. It helped me a little my body is severely torqued from playing soccer for 30 years and kicking with one foot constantly. It helped me get rid of that. My lower back was just to tight at the time to do a lot of the exercises and progress much further though. I think Im going to give it a try again for my low back stiffness.
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