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Posted 7/24/2019 11:32 PM (GMT -5)
My latest rabbit hole is mold, and I'm afraid I might have some exposure in my home. I wake up pretty much daily with a mild sore throat and slight nasal congestion. Could these be attributed to mold exposure?

My house did suffer some water damage about 18 months ago, when a pipe burst in my bedroom. It flooded through the floor and soaked much of the downstairs ceiling and walls. I also see visible mold (not sure if it's toxic?) growing on my refrigerator, which is placed directly under an A/C vent that blasts it 24/7.

Thanks as always for any input!
Posted 7/25/2019 12:48 AM (GMT -5)
yes

You have mold. The pipe bursting 100% left some mold behind no question. You need to have a mold expert come look at your house and see whats up.

meanwhile look into getting some CSM and research mold binders. The facebook group "Toxic Mold, CIRS and Lyme Disease Support Group" is pretty good you might want to join that.

My favorite mold binders are currently chlorophy, IP6, charcoal. I also nebulize glutathione.
Posted 7/25/2019 1:01 AM (GMT -5)
Thanks, Lapis.

I live in Saudi Arabia so I'm fairly confident it won't be possible to find a mold expert. I don't own the house so moving is always a possibility.

I understand that CSM/binders will be necessary to treat symptoms of exposure, but it's imperative that I first remove the source, right?
Posted 7/25/2019 1:41 AM (GMT -5)
Also, are there any recommended tests for mycotoxin exposure? I'm finding conflicting information about their reliability.
Posted 7/25/2019 7:19 AM (GMT -5)
Yes - move. ASAP.

Move first to a place that has not had water damage, has no visible mold, and that you have no adverse symptoms in.

Great Plains Lab has a good test - MycoTox.

Realtime Labs is another reputable one.

Great Plains is better - tests more mycotoxins and provides valuable information regarding your results. Also much more affordable.
Posted 7/25/2019 7:48 AM (GMT -5)
Thanks, WalkingbyFaith. I've contacted Great Plains to see if I can ship my sample from abroad... hopefully it's not an issue.
Posted 7/27/2019 11:59 PM (GMT -5)
This mold issue has me really depressed and I'm at a loss as to how to proceed. I'm in company-provided housing, and after some initial inquiries it's very clear that they are not going to move me unless I can provide some concrete documentation about the mold exposure and health effects. Seems like it will be hard to do this, and even if I can it's going to take many months before I'm able to move to a new house. And then, of course, I'm concerned that the other house will have mold, too - I'm not sure how I would know, short of ordering an ERMI kit for each potential new house.

Is it true that I won't be able to make any improvements while remaining exposed to mold?

Is there a risk my symptoms could worsen while staying here, even while treating with Buhner's protocol?

Is it better to test the house for mold (ERMI), or test myself (Great Labs MycoTox)? Which test will provide more useful data in terms of figuring out my precise situation?
Posted 7/28/2019 7:49 AM (GMT -5)
Scroggins,

I’m so sorry you’re in this situation. I just looked back at your original post and see you had clearly defined water damage and visible mold growth. Take photographs and document everything that happened. Was the leak reported at the time it happened? Was anything done? I would seek legal advice. This is a clear case of mold exposure due to water damage.

Is your company based in the US? Maybe look up mold legal services for your state. Does your company have an office that handles employee complaints that can advise you? They may try to put the burden of “proving” mold exposure on you. I would seek legal advice. If you spend the money on an ERMI, they likely won’t accept it saying it’s not approved testing, etc.

Most in the mold industry will not acknowledge any mold testing unless it is conducted by a “qualified” mold inspector. (Really a farce as the mold industry is unregulated and requires no standard professional certification.). That means unless you are working with a CIRS literate mold professional, they will not acknowledge results of any testing you do yourself. Furthermore, it would cost you $290 to do the ERMI yourself. If the inspector does an ERMI, they will charge around $500 for the same test.

Post Edited (WalkingbyFaith) : 7/28/2019 6:55:02 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 7/28/2019 8:13 AM (GMT -5)
Hey Scroggins... I live in the UAE so I totally understand what you are saying. We have the same issues with the heat and humidity and AC. We found a company that comes every 6 months to fully clean, sanitise and service our AC and they are mould specialists. They were also able to assist with minor remediation works when we had a leak and the walls sustained water damage.

It's worthwhile searching for a company in KSA, with the climate they would do very well! I did a quick search and found this company: HydroKleen-KSA - no affiliation at all, honest. Just looked for something that sounded similar to the company we use.

We also have a dehumidifier going almost constantly in the summer. It's incredible how much water it sucks out pf the air.

These are the two things i think have helped us the most with damp and mould in this environment. It's probably unlikely you will find people to do inspections to the standard in the US or UK, but I think you just do the best you can, and this has definitely helped us.
Posted 7/28/2019 11:58 AM (GMT -5)

WalkingbyFaith said...
Scroggins,

I’m so sorry you’re in this situation. I just looked back at your original post and see you had clearly defined water damage and visible mold growth. Take photographs and document everything that happened. Was the leak reported at the time it happened? Was anything done? I would seek legal advice. This is a clear case of mold exposure due to water damage.

Thanks, Walking. I do have photos of the house after the flooding, and the (rather shoddy) repairs that the company had done at the time. It was documented internally, but I'm not sure how much detail was recorded.

I hadn't even considered the legal ramifications, but mold in general is something I'm just starting to learn about.

I just realized this evening, however, that when I spent five months in a different house (September-January), I felt better than I had in years. I attributed it to transitioning to the keto diet, which I'm sure played a large role, but then I started feeling terrible again after returning to the old house. I couldn't figure out why, until now.

WalkingbyFaith said...

Is your company based in the US? Maybe look up mold legal services for your state. Does your company have an office that handles employee complaints that can advise you? They may try to put the burden of “proving” mold exposure on you. I would seek legal advice. If you spend the money on an ERMI, they likely won’t accept it saying it’s not approved testing, etc.

It's a foreign company but they have a strong US presence, and I was hired by the US office (Houston). Unfortunately, I think it's very unlikely that I'd be able to find a mold expert here, so I'm dependent on tests that I can conduct myself.

WalkingbyFaith said...

Most in the mold industry will not acknowledge any mold testing unless it is conducted by a “qualified” mold inspector. (Really a farce as the mold industry is unregulated and requires no standard professional certification.). That means unless you are working with a CIRS literate mold professional, they will not acknowledge results of any testing you do yourself. Furthermore, it would cost you $290 to do the ERMI yourself. If the inspector does an ERMI, they will charge around $500 for the same test.

That's absurd, but not surprising. Sadly I fear I may not have a choice, and at least with the ERMI I'll know what I'm dealing with. Would you recommend ERMI and Great Labs MycoTox? Or would one give me all the info I need?
Posted 7/28/2019 12:04 PM (GMT -5)

missy j78 said...
Hey Scroggins... I live in the UAE so I totally understand what you are saying. We have the same issues with the heat and humidity and AC. We found a company that comes every 6 months to fully clean, sanitise and service our AC and they are mould specialists. They were also able to assist with minor remediation works when we had a leak and the walls sustained water damage.

It's worthwhile searching for a company in KSA, with the climate they would do very well! I did a quick search and found this company: HydroKleen-KSA - no affiliation at all, honest. Just looked for something that sounded similar to the company we use.

We also have a dehumidifier going almost constantly in the summer. It's incredible how much water it sucks out pf the air.

Thanks, Missyj. I'm glad to learn I'm not the only person here who's based in the Gulf. UAE is quite a bit more advanced than Saudi, but you at least have some sense of what it's like here.

Thanks for the recommendations. I'll definitely check out HydroKleen, and will try to find some others. I think I'll almost certainly have to move to a different house (I suspect the entire bedroom floor would need to be replaced), but it'd be great if these guys could at least definitively identify the presence of mold in the house.

The dehumidifier is also a great idea. It's dry for much of the year here, but with the 24/7 AC it can get quite humid indoors.

Since the visible mold I see is directly under the AC, is it reasonable to assume there might be mold inside the AC vents?
Posted 7/28/2019 12:10 PM (GMT -5)
The ERMI tests the building for mold. The Great Plains MycoTox test tests your body for mycotoxins (mold toxins) being excreted in urine.

The MycoTox test would show that you are being poisoned by the mold. The lab report also includes details about the mycotoxins you test positive for, the molds that produce them, and the health effects based on published data. Great Plains is actually a preferred lab with some Blue Cross insurance plans, so that helps legitimize the lab. The MycoTox test, unfortunately, is not covered by insurance.
Posted 7/28/2019 12:30 PM (GMT -5)
Thanks, Walking. I'll start with MycoTox so I know exactly how I'm being affected.
Posted 7/28/2019 1:01 PM (GMT -5)
Just thought of something to point out. Mold can also cause allergies and asthma, which are completely different from CIRS and mycotoxicosis. You can experience both.
Posted 7/28/2019 11:28 PM (GMT -5)
Ugh. Hopefully I manage to escape before that happens.

I really appreciate your support here, WalkingbyFaith. Thank you very much for you sharing your knowledge/experience about an issue most normies know nothing about.

If there is visible mold on the fridge under the AC, should I assume there is mold in the AC vents?

Also, my (admittedly superficial) reading suggests that most people are unharmed by mold exposure. The only people who seem to be affected are those with a specific genetic trait, and those who are immunocompromised (by Lyme or other conditions). Assuming I don't have the mold-sensitive genome, do you think my body will ever recover its ability to process mycotoxins, or will I be susceptible even after brief exposures?

I noticed on another thread that you thought you experienced symptoms after a visit to a moldy dental office. Do you have the genetic trait that makes you sensitive?

Thanks again for your support.
Posted 7/29/2019 12:47 AM (GMT -5)

Scroggins said...
Since the visible mold I see is directly under the AC, is it reasonable to assume there might be mold inside the AC vents?

Scroggins, I would say you're almost 100% guaranteed to find mould in the AC vents. Anything that circulates air in your home should be serviced regularly, IMO. And it has to be a specialist company that knows to take precautions when cleaning, so they don't distribute the spores any further into the atmosphere.
Posted 7/29/2019 1:35 AM (GMT -5)
That's what I was afraid of. I think moving is the only solution here, but it's going to take time.
Posted 7/29/2019 7:40 AM (GMT -5)
Scroggins,

I agree with what missy said.

I’m not sure what kind of AC you have. If it’s central air with a duct system and there is a vent right over the top of the refrigerator, it could be mold from the ducts blowing out or mold from condensation buildup on top of the refrigerator due to close proximity to the air coming out.

According to Dr. Shoemaker, who established the diagnosis and treatment of CIRS, about 25% of the population has a genetic susceptibility to biotoxins based on HLA-DR genes. Some doctors now question that and don’t find the genetic issue that applicable (see notes from ISEAI 2019 Conference from BetterHealthGuy).

I suspect having Lyme or other immunosuppressive illness is probably a more important factor than just having a gene.

I don’t know about susceptibility with vs without the gene. With the gene, it seems once it’s triggered there’s no going back. That’s why I talk about it so much. Most people don’t know they are affected until it gets really bad. By then, they’re full blown.
Posted 7/30/2019 5:45 AM (GMT -5)
Thanks, Walking. I've ordered genetic testing to see if I'm a carrier, but you're probably correct that illnesses like Lyme play a more important role. Still, it's best to know what I'm dealing with.
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