(No Subject)

At some point, I would add Sida acuta for bart.

Why so low on the skullcap? Did you have any issues with it?

Glad you are making progress.

I got up to 60 drops a day of Houttuynia, along with other Buhner herbs - Knotweed, CSA, Cat's Claw. I was tolerating it all very well until Feb 2020, and that's when it felt like immune system suddenly kicked into gear and woke up and started killing the Lyme on its own. I have also been on LDN that entire time, so that has helped.

What is interesting is that I can no longer tolerate even 1 drop of Houttuynia. I believe my Bartonella bacterial load has come down significantly (since I don't stink nearly as bad anymore), so I wonder if my body was just like "nope, don't need this anymore." I worked up from literally 1 drop of herbs to 60 a day, and that took about 7 months.

Donjr said...
Orbit, thanks for replying. Did u have reactions to hout? Good to know i can go higher than 30. When i plateau i can move up more. Hope your feeling great by the way!
Don

Yes I did, that's why it took me so long to work up to 60 drops. I had too many symptoms to name, but my worst herxes from Houttuynia involved: flu-like symptoms, swollen lymph nodes in my neck, headaches, neck stiffness, blotchy red Bartonella rashes, sore scalp, purple feet, tiny muscle spasms all over my legs, heavyness/fatigue in my legs, balance issues, finger joint pain, horrible diarrhea, oniony-smelling-BO, sore throat in a.m., and gobs of sinus mucus drainage (gross! sorry).

I am doing a lot better. I was feeling great at the beginning of June and then I seemed to have another wave of massive bacteria die-off for some reason. We definitely go layer by layer. My body's like "oh you think you're done? I've got more, I found some Bart from 1985!"

Orbitingaround, after reading your Houttuynia experience, I am curious - what were the symptoms that let you know that you were no longer tolerating Houttuynia, and how were they different from herx symptoms (if at all)?

And how are you feeling now? Does the setback you experienced this month feel like a relapse or do you think you might have Bart in remission?

I'm curious because I have been taking Houttuynia for 4.5 months now and still reacting/herxing but it's changed form over time and gotten much less severe. I'm trying to figure out how/when I will know I might have gotten as far as I'll go and when it might be safe to stop...

1yrinVA said...
Orbitingaround, after reading your Houttuynia experience, I am curious - what were the symptoms that let you know that you were no longer tolerating Houttuynia, and how were they different from herx symptoms (if at all)?

And how are you feeling now? Does the setback you experienced this month feel like a relapse or do you think you might have Bart in remission?

I'm curious because I have been taking Houttuynia for 4.5 months now and still reacting/herxing but it's changed form over time and gotten much less severe. I'm trying to figure out how/when I will know I might have gotten as far as I'll go and when it might be safe to stop...

Good question! Hmm, I'm not really sure how to explain how I knew... a lot of it is a science experiment/pure gut instinct. In Feb. I guess what happened is that it felt like overnight I went from tolerating 60 drops a day and herxing mildly every 5 weeks on that, to herxing like mad and not even tolerating 1 drop. My Lyme symptoms are very closely tied to my trauma history, so I was having pretty severe flashbacks, and in Feb. they increased a huge amount -- and at the same time so did my herxing. I know when I'm herxing from Bart because I absolutely stink like a rotting onion (yes it's disgusting!)

In Feb. I stopped the herbs completely and stopped my LDN for several days, and I was still herxing and having flashbacks, and the BO smell had increased so bad. I just kind of instinctively felt that my immune system had kicked in -- a lot of this is because I am also on the LDN. I did second-guess myself a lot at that point though.

I am feeling better now, and I do not think it was a relapse in June -- absolutely not. I think for me because my symptoms are so closely tied to my flashbacks it is easier for me to judge progress. I have a theory that my brain lesions (I have like 15 lesions) were actually caused by the abuse I endured as a kid, and not the Lyme or Bartonella. And then the Lyme and Bart bacteria was opportunistic, and went deep into the injured parts of my brain. So when I have a flashback (this is my brain healing) all this bacteria gets released and my body has to kill it, and then I herx. I have been able to see this pattern over time.

In June I did worry about a relapse...but I was on vacation staying with my boyfriend's family, and in an extremely relaxing, calm, supportive, loving environment, and I had been feeling great. A relapse just did not make sense at all. I also had 2 pretty severe, really old flashbacks/memories pop up at this time, so that could have brought out the herx or huge load of bacteria.

I would not say I have Bart in remission yet, no. I don't know what remission will look or feel like. I definitely still have symptoms, but they have lessened over time. It feels like another layer has come off. It's just frustrating because there are so many layers. This is a process, your entire body has to heal. I try to trust my body, that it knows how to heal and knows what it's doing. Even on my worst herxing, toxic, sick days, I tell myself my body knows how to heal.

Your experience with Houttuynia where the herx has become less severe is what happened to me as I increased drops. I was able to increase to 60 drops a day over time as I could tolerate more, with less of a herx. Do you keep a daily symptom log? It's really helpful. I also rate my days on a scale of 1-5, so I can look back over time and see patterns.

Orbitingaround - Thanks for sharing more about your story, that is very interesting. Glad to hear your symptoms didn't turn out to be a relapse and that you feel like you've peeled away another layer of illness. I definitely understand/empathize, each time I feel like I'm working on the last layer I found out there is another one waiting underneath... oh well haha. The symptom journal sounds like a good idea, I have been relying on memory/gut but it would be interesting to see how things compare over time on paper.



Walking by Faith - Houttuynia has really helped with clearing up my mind (less severe brainfog), the Bart irritability/anger/rage (occasionally still experience a slight echo of it but nothing like it was), stopped having the ice pick headache/electroshock sensations that felt like they were coming from inside my brain, also can't remember the last significant incidence of shin pain.

Remaining herx/reaction symptoms include: fatigue, head/face pressure, upper right quadrant pain (liver/spleen?), burning skin sensations esp. in face, water droplet/heat sensations on limbs, muscle twitches, chest pain/pressure.

My main goal is to continue treatment until I've knocked back Bart as far as it will go. But I remember reading that Houttuynia is also supposed to be antifungal and I know I had/have a very serious Candida/yeast problem. For example, my nasal passages were persistently infected with some kind of fungus for years, and outwardly cleared up after long-term Candida-focused treatment. However, when I experience burning skin sensations in my nose from Houtty, this makes me wonder if it is hitting Candida instead of Bart.

I know Candida is difficult of not impossible to totally eradicate so I am fine with stopping treatment with Houtty if the reactions I am still experiencing are due to Candida. I am resigned to maintaining a long-term anti-Candida diet/lifestyle either way. It's just hard to tell what the symptoms are from. Also, I worry that the severity of fungal die-off/herx symptoms may be preventing me from getting to a high enough dose of Houtty to be fully effective for Bart.

Tough to say on mold... I know I lived in a musty half-basement level apartment 10ish years ago that grew black mold profusely in the bathroom so I've probably been exposed. Also probably more fatigue, headaches, depression while I was living there.

But after I left that place, I didn't recall any lasting issues and my current symptoms didn't emerge until infected with Lyme & Co in 2017 and starting to treat Candida in 2018. In fact, most of the skin burning, etc. started around the time I purged the Candida root system from my intestines and my immune system seemed to kick up a notch.

So I can't rule mold out completely but I've never had a reason to think it was the primary cause of my symptoms. I honestly haven't done much research on it though.

1yrinVA said...
most of the skin burning, etc. started around the time I purged the Candida root system from my intestines and my immune system seemed to kick up a notch.

How did you do this? How did you know when the Candida root system was purged?

Yeast and mold, I now realize, cause many of the same symptoms. I know my gut is a big problem, but diet is the one thing I have been most resistant to for various reasons. I know I would feel so much better if I did everything right.

Interesting. I had a similar expulsion of stuff from my gut a couple of years ago after taking Candicid Forte for a month or more. The stuff I saw was greenish yellow and stringy like seaweed. It didn’t look like yeast. I don’t really know what it was, but for about 4 days afterward I was able to move my bowels on my own without taking magnesium or anything for constipation. The constipation came back, though, but got better again this year, possibly due to the addition of TUDCA Plus. Gut stuff can be hard to figure out and fix. I do have ropeworm, but other than that, I’m not sure what pathogens are there - probably the whole zoo.

I had the oniony underarm smell, but only in the first few months of my illness. I know what you mean - it is not a normal body odor variant. The only strain of Bartonella I have tested positive for is baciliformis. I most likely was bitten by a tick outside of Boston (at beautiful Walden Pond).