Have you taken the vaccine?

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We've had a few threads about this, and they tend to get unproductive and heated very fast. I very much hope that we as a community can keep this one respectful and focused. We have had many opinions posted about thoughts and concerns. I agree that it would be very helpful to hear from forum members who actually have gotten the vaccine! I think many of us would like to hear about side effects and actual experiences.

A relative (hospital lab employee, 48, recent cardiac surgery, smoked for decades) got both doses of the Moderna vaccine. He felt fine after the first dose aside from a sore arm, and after the second dose felt horrible for about 36 hours, and then fine. By "horrible" I mean he couldn't use his arm, was dizzy, had a high fever, and felt exhausted. And now he's immensely relieved not to fear for his life every time he goes to work or runs an errand. Working in a hospital, he sees so many people die from this disease every day, and sees the hospital staff at breaking points from the stress and lack of resources.

Vaccines contain adjuvants to rev up the immune system, so some LLMDs recommend that folks with Lyme not get any vaccines. In general, this seems like a fair assessment for adults who are already mostly vaccinated, and whose systems are struggling.

I chose to get a tetanus booster a few years ago, and I had bad neurological symptoms for a week afterward, but ultimately am glad to have the protection from tetanus. I feel similarly about the COVID vaccine. From what I have read, including the opinions of various LLMDs, the risks to us from COVID seem to outweigh the risks to us from the vaccine. (And by "us" I mean people with chronic conditions that involve immune dysfunction.) I was bedridden for five months because of the cytokine storm that followed a mild cold, so I do not want to find out what COVID could do to me.

Dr. Horowitz (correct me if it was a different LLMD) has said that people with autoimmune disease have a 2% chance of developing another autoimmune disease from the vaccine. In my experience and observations on this forum, many people seem to develop their autoimmune conditions following a virus, bacterial infection, or other trauma to the system, too. Again, I believe that this risk from the vaccine is less of a wildcard than getting the virus is, especially considering the frequency of "long COVID."

I'm definitely not pro-pharma or blindly pro-vaccine. I read all the books and watched all the documentaries before deciding which vaccines to administer to my child, and discussed these things at length with her pediatrician and others before deciding. My family has had adverse reactions to vaccines, and the reporting procedure is not straightforward. For decades, vaccine manufacturers have been shielded from liability if someone reacts poorly to a vaccine, so you cannot sue the companies if something happens. This is all deeply sketchy to me and unacceptable. I am a fan of vaccines in theory, but in practice there have been distressing ingredients and testing foibles that make trusting the manufacturers tough.

All of that said, COVID is mutating into more dangerous variants as we speak. This virus already has done so much damage, and the pandemic has to end. Because humans evidently cannot be trusted to do what's safe and responsible for themselves and others, and because no effective treatment has been found and implemented to make both acute and chronic cases less dangerous, the vaccine is our best bet to stop the pandemic.

We have to stop the pandemic. That's what it comes down to, for me. I wish there were another way that seemed at all feasible.

Thanks everyone. My "I should search for that" brain wasn't on this morning. Thanks!

“ However, even after being vaccinated, she and her colleagues were told to continue social distancing, hand washing, and wearing masks. “

Our Provincial Health Officer said that they don’t know that once you’re vaccinated - you won’t be passing on the virus to others.

Time will tell

Dude said...
...I wanted to ask if there's reliable data collection and reporting on people to distinguish those who die WITH the virus and those who die FROM the virus?

Without getting into the weeds on how deaths get rightly or wrongly attributed to covid, you can tally the excess deaths from months during the pandemic and see that there is most likely an undercount of deaths FROM the virus:

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6942e2.htm

Edit: I swapped in a different article as the data in the other one wasn't complete

Dude said...
However, even after being vaccinated, she and her colleagues were told to continue social distancing, hand washing, and wearing masks. Obviously, I wrongly assumed that people would get vaccinated and then return to "normal" life. But, it seems not. Not immediately, anyway

Imo this is another failure in the messaging coming from the top. As Girlie noted, they say this because there is not yet data on whether or not the mRNA vaccines are preventing asymptomatic infection, therefore there can't be certainty that they are preventing transmission coming from those who are vaccinated.. plus they probably want to avoid having two classes of citizens- one for vaccinated an one for non, and to keep the behavior of the vaccinated from influencing the non-vaccinated..

However, in the current climate with so much understandable hesitancy towards these vaccines, the larger impact of this overly cautious messaging leads to the confusion you articulated.. reminiscent of "don't buy masks they don't work", when the truth was "don't buy masks we need them for our health care providers". We need straight-forward honest "we're all adults here" talk, but we're not always getting it.

I think any expert on the matter would say it's extremely unlikely that the mRNA vaccines do not provide protection against asymptomatic infection/ transmission. The oxford/astrazeneca vax actually does have data showing protection against asymptomatic infection (they included routine PCR testing in at least a portion of their trial participants).. and the ox vax uses the spike protein as the target for immune response like the mRNA vaccines do. The ox vax doesn't seem to provoke quite as strong of a response as the mRNA vaccines, which leads me to believe that the mRNA vaccines probably protect against transmission even better than the ox vax does. We already know the mRNA vaccines were 90-95% effective in preventing symptomatic covid (ox vax I think 80 something %). mRNAs and ox vax are all 100% effective at preventing severe covid.. and if any emerging variant significantly reduces that effectiveness, mRNA vaccines can easily be tweaked and a booster shot can make them work better again.

It's hard to characterize the vaccines as anything other than a huge success so far- unless I'm missing something.. but I feel I have been following things pretty closely.

Post Edited (potsnpans) : 2/7/2021 8:00:52 PM (GMT-7)

I work in a retirement community that has long term care, assisted living, and independent living. Out of 75 employees we only had 10 sign up for the vaccine. Our residents got their 1st vaccine a couple of weeks ago, and didn't do to bad, but we did have one that tested positive for covid a week after her first vaccine, no symptoms, was caught on our weekly testing. And she had already had covid back in November. No other staff or residents tested positive and no outside visitors. And the health department says it isn't from the vaccine. They all get the second vaccine next Saturday, I hope they do OK because I here it's quite a bit rougher then the first. And I won't be getting the experimental vaccine.

ChristianWithLyme said...
You may want to listen to this Dr. Lee Merrit interview before you take the vaccine.

A quick search reveals "Dr Lee Merritt" is an orthopedic surgeon and therefore not someone I'm interested in hearing from about vaccines, virology, etc.

Hi all, it's been a long time since I posted. I have been totally well for 15 years now!

Anyway due to my research I will not be getting this vaccine. I will add this from Dr. Mercola (I have researched other articles as well that most people will not find on google):

- By referring to COVID-19 vaccines as “vaccines” rather than gene therapies, the U.S. government is violating its 15 U.S. Code Section 41, which regulates deceptive practices in medical claims

- The mRNA injections are gene therapies that do not fulfill a single criteria or definition of a vaccine COVID-19 “vaccines” do not impart immunity or inhibit transmissibility of the disease. They only are designed to lessen your infection symptoms if or when you get infected. As such, these products do not meet the legal or medical definition of a vaccine

- Since a vast majority of people who test positive for SARS-CoV-2 have no symptoms at all, they’ve not even been able to establish a causal link between the virus and the clinical disease

- By calling this experimental gene therapy technology a “vaccine,” they are circumventing liability for damages that would otherwise apply

I wish everyone good health and keep on fighting! If I can get better then you can too!
Cheers, Denise

In case she doesn’t see this and post here, cherylfelice just posted that she’s had a very bad experience following shot #1 that sounds like what we all fear. That was 3 weeks ago she says and symptoms are progressively worse.

Here’s her post - https://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=4236597#gsc.tab=0

Re: covid vaccine

An acquaintance called me yesterday.. she had her phone appt with her LLMD. (A very experienced, knowledgeable LLMD who is also a Infectious disease doc.)
She asked about getting the vaccine and he said emphatically “NO”

And he wasn’t just talking about Lyme patients.

No longitudinal (peer reviewed studies ) no one knows how it will affect us down the road.

Also mentioned Ivermectin to treat it.

I just heard a doctor today say she thinks the worst damages and deaths from the vaccine will occur 4-14? months down the road from when the vaccine is taken. It sounds like what is in the vaccine and how it reacts in your body could cause damages and deaths when the person comes into contact with other coronaviruses.

This is similar to a scenario Dr. Lee Merrit talked about in the video I posted above. She studied bioweapons. Said that something could be put into the vaccine (spike protein?) and that something could be released down the road a ways and when the vaccinated person comes into contact with what was released, they would die.

I'm sure the propaganda machine will continue to be in full swing to try to keep us from believing the vaccine is part of the problem and not the solution.

CWL said...
I just heard a doctor today say she thinks the worst damages and deaths from the vaccine will occur 4-14? months down the road from when the vaccine is taken. It sounds like what is in the vaccine and how it reacts in your body could cause damages and deaths when the person comes into contact with other coronaviruses

I heard this for the first time last week, which has me wondering if it's just a new strategy for denying the apparent success of the vaccines so far. Before it was VAERD that would keep the mRNA vaccines from succeeding in the trials, now it's VAERD in 4-14 months from exposure to a different virus.. you and Georgiahunter must be following the same doctor on facebook/twitter. Mind sharing the source? I need it for my own research.