So, I just developed irregular heartbeat out of the blue......

for around a year now I have had a loud heartbeat pulsing sound in my ears - mainly at night when i lie with one ear on the pillow - its pretty loud - but i understand this is a common thing with lyme and associated conditions and i had got used to it.

however this last week or so i have been getting irregular heartbeats - and last night it was the worst yet and while I am used to weird symptoms, pain, digestion etc etc i have to admit it has e a bit rattled as its actually stopping for a beat or two then restarting with a thump that i can feel through my torso, it's accompanied with a slight sharp pain in the area of my heart.

to give an idea of the extent - it would skip a beat or two every 4 or 5 beats sometimes each 3 or 10 or 12 beats - on and off for 10-30mins. It would then seem regular but elevated maybe 80-90bpm ( been at this elevated level when at rest for a year or so also ) - and then go back to skipping - and did this all night. at one point waking me up in a sweat and feeling alarmed/feeling something was wrong.

is this just a lyme / bart / mycoplasma thing?

is this likely to be any of the meds, supplements or herbs i am taking - i have been pretty careful - but I will list them just in case anyone spots anything

-meds
-- Thyroid T3/T4 combo - mostly T4 with a bit of T3 - less T3 than i used to take - no changes for 3 months - and last test showed still under not over-medicated - although the last few tests have been a bit up and down for unknown reasons ( maybe LDN or herb treatments / her )
--LDN - moved up to 2.75mg a day taken in the am around 2 weeks ago - usually, most adverse side effects have settled down after around 1 week - which they seem to have done from this last step also

-supplements - all the usual Lyme type vitamins etc
--vits - C, D, E, A ( a low dose) Biotin, B-50 complex, Niacinamide
--minerals - magnesium, selenium, zinc
--supplements - CoQ10, ALA, NAC, Acetyl-Carnitine, Fish oil, l-Theanine, betaine-HCL, L-Arginine, MSM, TUDCA

-Buhner lyme herbs --knotweed, cats claw, cordyceps, Uncaria Rhynchophilia, Dan Shen, Ch. Skullcap, licorice (only 0.5ml 4x)
- Buhner co-infection herbs - houttuynia, sida, cryptolepis, alcornea, teasel, berberis ( combined in pretty low doses - all together 4ml 4x a day)
-Buhner adaptogens - eleuthero, Rhodiola, Ashwagandha ( again low / tonic doses - around 1.25ml 3x a day of each - and have been taking more than this for the last 3+ years without any ill effects )

-TUDCA just trial for the last month - but doubt this is related
-co-infection herbs - have been very gradually working up the dose - but by a few drops a week at most

it looks like a lot when you list it all out - but have been taking pretty much all of these for years now - trialing things and seeing what seems to help - gradually working my way up and adding one at a time and not much has changed recently - overall i am making gradual improvements over time but very slowly - so this latest symptom is a bit odd when generally everything else seems to be improving.

should I be worried about this - or does it just go with the territory?
is it just because I am treating that certain symptoms will flare?

i will book an appointment with my PCP - but not expecting much help from them based on my experience thus far - and any insight would be very much appreciated

Since this is new, I would see a cardiologist and get checked out. Hopefully do an echocardiogram.

I have mitral valve regurge/prolapse. The doctor thinks the skipping I feel is related to that. Honestly, I don’t believe they are connected. I had the skipping off and on for years. I would feel fatigue or just kind of weird with it, too. I also have had a fast heartbeat my whole life - 80”s-90’s all the time.

I had episodes with the skipping that would last days to weeks to months and then disappear. As the years went on (undiagnosed with Lyme), the episodes would last longer with shorter reprieves between.

After I got out of the first moldy house and started detoxing, the cardiac symptoms faded. Then I was tested for Lyme and started Buhner’s protocols for Lyme & bart. That was 2016. I still have random occasions when I feel the skipping or a fast, hard heartbeat, but it’s not a common symptom for me anymore.

Kind of strange that this symptom just suddenly cropped up now inexplicably.

I think it was Buhner who said any valve issues - suspect bartonella.

I know girlie talked about pulsatile tinnitus. I think that may have gone away. Not sure with which treatment, though. Ask her if she doesn’t comment here.

Post Edited (WalkingbyFaith) : 3/7/2021 7:36:23 AM (GMT-7)

Hey Garzie, are you drinking enough water?
If not, this can cause heart palpitations.

Also, how much TUDCA are you taking?
I read that too much bile acid can cause heart problems.

Take care!

thanks for the replies Guys and Girls. it's appreciated.

good to hear it's relatively common and largely not a huge worry.

I guess I am going through a stressful time at the moment - my Partner has mental health issues is intolerant of my illness and tends to direct a fair amount of anger and resentment my way and between - soi guess that qualifies as stressful - though I hadn't felt it was particularly stressful right now - maybe the effects are cumulative.

I do plan to book in to see my PCP here - will call them first thing in the am.

I have been drinking what I think is enough water - in total over 2.5 liters a day (includes tea, etc)
I used to drink a lot less - and don't recall having any issues then

I have been taking 250mg of TUDCA 2x a day for a little over a month - but stopped today just in case it is somehow related - I can't say I have noticed any benefit from it.

thanks for all the support

Thanks, Astroman - good to hear it didn't kill you either

as you say - so many here seem to have similar odd issues

I am not optimistic about how the conversation with the GP will go tomorrow - I was fighting fit till this illness hit 6 years ago - and since that day i keep going to the GP with stuff that fit men in the 40's are not supposed to get - and they insist in treating each in isolation - usually just treating the symptoms at best - or just shrug and say we don't know why this happens to some people but its not connected - and i'm like "Really doc? - all of this stuff, all of a sudden to one person who was fighting fit before - and his partner the same - and its not connected? are you for real....?" but it just bounces off them - they really dont care enough to look into it, probably write something in teh notes to remind them that the patient is "difficult" or dissatisfied and believes he has a mystery illness - then move on to their next 10min appointment.

i guess i just need them to check for anything life-threatening so i will try to restrain myself - but it does get my goat.....

thanks again for the support

You're not on azithromycin by any chance are you?
Now that's a real heart breaker right there.
Maybe back off the LDN a bit and stick with the herbs for a while until your heart calms down.
You are taking your daily hawthorn tincture right?
All the best!

Post Edited (insomniaaa) : 9/19/2021 1:02:33 PM (GMT-6)

insomniaaa said...
You're not on azithromycin by any chance are you?
Now that's a real heart breaker right there.
Some meds can be not so good for the heart.
Maybe back off the LDN a bit and stick with the herbs for a while until your heart calms down.
You are taking your daily hawthorn tincture right?
All the best

Yep, I'm taking it as a tea - but yes take it pretty religiously

@ the Dude

thank you very much for your thoughts, yes, I hear you and of course, I have had the same thought - and the reason for listing them in this post is to raise the topic for discussion.

indeed I have researched each of the things I am taking - and indeed trialed it for some time in isolation also
but you are right to point out - no-one really knows how any of these things in combination could be affecting any one individual - as we are all different.

however the question of should I take them - or do I need them - cannot be taken in isolation either.
i tried only basic buhner herbs and was stuck with no progress for 3 years of my life. it was clear that this alone was not a solution. and unless i can move my health forward i will pretty soon not be able to support myself and so no action or a minimal approach is also a very high risk for me.

so i tried adding specific additional herbs as per Buhner mainly for helping the immune system balance and modulate - i made small but steady improvements
I also noted i had herx like reactions and then some better weeks after trialing co-infection herbs - but the herxes were not tolerable long term - so i tried slowly building up the doses from a very low level over time and again got improvements - but small and still very very gradual.
i had objective tests of many markers run and addressed those as best i could with supplements where it seemed appropriate eg common vitamins and minerals - and i note these are very frequently used supplements advised by many respected LLMD's and that many people in this population take without apparent ill effects.

so that is the short version of how each of these things has been added over a period of years, essentially one at a time and with a trial period to try to determine if I was having any ill effect - and against a backdrop of if i do nothing, or even if I do only a few of them I do not move forward.

This seems to be entirely in keeping with the multifaceted approaches advised as necessary by most of the most respected LLMD's - people like Horowitz ( treat all 16 points on the MSIDS map - where in fact, each point can be a subset eg hormone dysfunction containing several points in itself leading to very complex protocols) and Burascano ( abx, diet, exercise program, sleep, supplements etc ) as well as many personal accounts of the people who have got better here. so i just mean to illustrate that having a complex protocol is not so much an outlier - but the norm. so i think it fair to say anyone who has been sick for 6 years or more who responds to simple protocols should consider themselves very fortunate indeed.

of course, we cannot rule out that I could be having some uncommon adverse reaction to any one of the items or some combination - but it seems this would at least be against the odds as they all appear to be in common use generally have very low chance of ill effects and likely some positive effects.

i should also say i would love to be able to stop every single one of them - but the reality is i have only moved forward at all through this approach, in fact to the degree that i am now close to the point where i could consider going back to work of some sort - at least part-time and really don't want to rock the boat if i can help it

so , how to establish which of the above list is actually helping me - and which are unnecessary and could simply be adding unnecessary complexity, cost, and adverse effects into the mix - now there is the million dollar question....

certainly, i am pondering it and i welcome your input - but so far i feel have been about as careful, measured, and analytical as I think it's possible to be - and generally, i have been succeeding - as demonstrated by measurable progress - recently even my mornings have started to be more functional - one of the main barriers to be able to work.

so i feel i am at a critical tipping point where i will either move a bit further forward and likely start to be able to do more and this i feel will make it more likely that progress will continue - or my health will fall back into something more like it was a year or so ago. the latter seems more likely if i stop any of the major elements that have got me to this point.

i will give it more thought and perhaps revisit each of the items on the list to re-assess risk of heart issues
- but would very much welcome any more thoughts/comments on this in a particular aspect of how to fish the useful from the not useful elements of my protocol.

i don't mean to sound defensive - i really do appreciate all the comments - including and sometimes especially the challenging or opposing ones - i just mean to communicate my reasoning of how i have got the place i am at - so please do not stop doing that.

Garzie,
This is off topic of this post, but I didn’t realize you had treated with basic Buhner herbs for 3 years and got nowhere. I also saw where you mentioned your partner again. I know I sound like a broken record about mold, but you and especially your partner’s picture sounds to me like mold is a factor.

I know you mentioned that aspect at some time in the past and moved away from that. I can’t remember what all you looked into in that area, but it may be worth it to review that again.

Also, I recently heard about l-serine being used to treat neurological diseases in patients who had BMAA toxin. I think I picked up on that in Steven Phillips’ interview and then researched it.

Anyway, I have the multi-susceptible HLA-DR gene for all biotoxins. My initial onset of symptoms started after eating suspect shrimp that were undercooked, so it seemed reasonable to me to trial this. I just started taking l-serine to see if it may benefit me. Still not really sure what dosage I need to be taking for it to have effective action on the toxin.

Okay, found and copied the notes I took on it.

Stephen Phillips said l-serine displaces BMAA toxins from a blue-green algae.

“L-serine displaces BMAA from its binding sites and reduces it's toxicity. So it's one of the things that we recommend certainly for neurogenic conditions and ALS in particular, and also on the list is they've done several studies using lithium and shown to stabilize the progression of ALS. And that's been controversial; their doctors are saying let's not use this anymore, and let's stop researching this, and everything else.” https://www.betterhealthguy.com/episode139

Here’s more information on BMAA, l-serine and ALS - Ethnobotanist Paul Cox,

https://www.hcplive.com/view/does-blue-green-algae-cause-als-paul-cox-phd-is-on-a-global-quest

yep - Taking magnesium - 750mg of Mag Citrate 2x a day - still get the occasional cramps - but think I feel generally a bit more human - less muscle tension because of it.

What I like about using multiple lower MG natural thyroid med pills - is I can experimentally adjust as desired, just a little at a time. If thats not better, I can easily go back.

insomniaaa said...
You're not on azithromycin by any chance are you?
Now that's a real heart breaker right there.
Some meds can be not so good for the heart.
Maybe back off the LDN a bit and stick with the herbs for a while until your heart calms down.
You are taking your daily hawthorn tincture right?
All the best

Insomnia - just curious to know what your thoughts were regarding the LDN - and why you thought it best to cut back on this one rather than anything else

much appreciated!

Yeah, that doesn’t sound like mold is likely at play. Even without testing, sounds like you have done a more thorough job investigating than most.