Bartonella info

Ive been anxious and impatient about what kind of antibiotic I should try 1st to treat bart as it's my 1st time goin into bart treatment and I just came across this from the fda approved info and trials ?? I thought miconazole and like 2 other drugs assisted below were used to treat yeast infections as my doc had prescribed to me , but for bartonella I didnt know.maybe this will help someone find a more effective way to treat bart

We Identified 110 drug candidates that had better activity against stationary phase B. henselae than ciprofloxacin, and among the top 52 drug candidates tested, 41 drugs were confirmed by microscopy to have higher activity than the current frontline antibiotic erythromycin. The identified top drug candidates include pyrvinium pamoate, daptomycin, methylene blue, azole drugs (clotrimazole, miconazole, sulconazole, econazole, oxiconazole, butoconazole, bifonazole), aminoglycosides (gentamicin and streptomycin, amikacin, kanamycin), amifostine (Ethyol), antiviral Lopinavir/ritonavir, colistin, nitroxoline, nitrofurantoin, verteporfin, pentamidine, berberine, aprepitant, olsalazine, clinafloxacin, and clofoctol. Pyrvinium pamoate, daptomycin, methylene blue, clotrimazole, and gentamicin and streptomycin at their respective maximum drug concentration in serum (Cmax) had the capacity to completely eradicate stationary phase B. henselae after 3-day drug exposure in subculture studies. While the currently used drugs for treating bartonellosis, including rifampin, erythromycin, azithromycin, doxycycline, and ciprofloxacin, had very low minimal inhibitory concentration (MIC) against growing B. henselae, they had relatively poor activity against stationary phase B. henselae, except aminoglycosides. The identified FDA-approved agents with activity against stationary phase B. henselae should facilitate development of more effective treatments for persistent Bartonella infections.

My suggestion, as I mentioned in the other thread, is to take a drug from the first group (eg lopinavir/ritonavir) to drive the bartonella out of its stationary phase, then take a drug from the second group (eg doxycycline) to kill it.

Garzie said...
Quin - i must have missed that - are there really papers that demonstrate that those antivirals cause bart to come out of its stationary phase - if so i am very interested - as persister cells seems to be Barts main survival strategy.

I posted it above, you will have to find some more info though, bt it does say those 2 types of antivirals are used for HIV, bt are also effective in driving out bart in phase 2

Thanks but i had read that study and did not recall that inference - so i read it again to make sure i hadn't missed anything.
while its clear that it provides good evidence for "activity" against stationary phase B. henselae, - my understanding of both tests they used - Green/Red fluorescence, then epifluorescence microscope screening as confirmation - were both designed to distinguish live bacteria from dead bacteria.

so were they not merely evaluating the drugs for ability to kill or inactivate Bart - rather than determining if any of these drugs could cause it to change state from stationary to growth phase?

i have read accounts about disulfiram causing Bart type symptoms to flare - and that people may interpret that as "waking bart up" - but could there not be multiple explanations for that pattern of events
eg
- disulfiram is renowned for causing high herx effects and being hard to tolerate - so could well be causing a general disturbance of the immune system - which could be in good or bad ways - some of which could help bart infections - eg ramp up of some inflammatory signalling chemicals - it clearly has many effects in the body not all of which are well studied ...

- or by its antibiofilm properties it could perhaps be mobilising more bart or other bacteria from the tissues - causing more bacteria in the blood than is usual with chronic cases - and flaring symptoms that way

- or by causing symptom flares by some other as yet not understood mechanism - i highlight this as just about every substance i take that is meant to help bart causes this type of flare for me - and often it lasts for some weeks afterwards - but we rarely know what exactly the mechanism is and end up guessing

to my knowledge what exact mechanism the bacteria use to sense their environment and what triggers them to re-activate into growth mode from stationary phase is very little studied at present - i have only read of guesses at the mechanism in the scientific literature - that's why i was surprised to hear that some drugs were known to do it.

I'm not knocking the theory - i am actively interested in a positive way - if i have missed something important i am keen to hear - but on the other hand i don't want to assume something is the case is the evidence just isn't yet there

Thanks for the follow up Quin - appreciate it.

its interesting to hear that at least in your experience "waking up" bart and then treating it seemed to be effective.

bbailey423 said...
DesBios Bartonella treatment. It uses the bodies own immune system to kill Bartonella

Thanks