Zhangs allicin for bartonella

Ive been using it .

I use Metagenics Super Garlic 6000. Its super concentrated.

Its funny but when my llmd suggested I could stop it(Was first using it for candida in gut)I asked to continue it not knowing about Zhangs recommendation for it.

I just felt my body needed it.

It contains : SuperGarlic 6000 yields 6000mcg allicin

It also say this: You'll get 600mg of raw garlic concentrate, 61mg of phosphorous, and 80mg of calcium in every tablet.
It helps boost your overall immunity and enhances the health of your cardiovascular system, too
Each tablet has an enteric coating for easier dissolution in your intestines for reduced garlic breath
Just one tablet of SuperGarlic 6000 from Metagenics every day can help keep your immune and cardiovascular systems at optimal health.

Note: I do not work for metagenics ,nor have any financial gain from them. I just have experiencing using their products through my llmd.

great bbb penetration ...i did for 9 months ...at full dose it gets pricey ....allimax and other wernt same grade or quality hepapro always shipped fast ...i used in combo with hh2 ...very effective

yes i followed zhangs dosing in his book" lyme disease and modern chinese medicine....it was 2 pills 2x a day for one and 3x a day for the other...im not sure now which...lemme see if i have a copy still.....mind u i did while using bvt and rife modalities fwiw...

If you can tolerate it, try organic raw garlic. Garlic is plentiful at local farm markets this time of year, I have been stocking up. cheaper and more natural that more supplements.

No garlic breath/smell with my supplement.

While raw garlic is great, Im not sure that you would get a high enough dose of the allicin.

Most supplements are super concentrated versus eating bushels of garlic a day to get the same benefit.

But sure doesn't hurt to add raw garlic into your diet.

I looked up the Zhangs allicin. All I could tell from the label and description is 1 capsules has 250 mg of garlic extract. I didn’t see anything identifying the amount of allicin.

I might order the Metagenics. I can get it for less than $25 on Fullscript. The Metagenics has the 6000 mcg of allicin per capsule. My doc and I talked about garlic/allicin for yeast control last week. The Zhangs is $47-$49 from 2 vendors online.

Okay. Darin Ingels site has this in the description of Zhang’s Allicin:

“Dr. Zhang’s Allicin Caps are rich in allitiridi, which is the precursor to allicin and is provided in a sustained release formula so the allicin concentration remains stable throughout the day.
This is the most potent allicin extract I’ve worked with and find it is effective in treating bacterial or fungal overgrowth and helping maintain better microbial balance in the body.”

yeah, its the same old problem of trying to work out how much active ingredient is in any extract, herb etc

there is a reliable stabilised allicin product called "Allisure" - and their brands "Allicin max" which has 180mg of allicin per capsule - and an even stronger AlliMed that has i think 450mg of allicin per capsule - these are often recommended by practitioners over here ( i think its UK made) - as well as having more actual allicin in it than Zhang's - its also less expensive - so i think it would be my choice

i used it once before as part of a bacterial overgrowth gut type protocol - but long with many other things so cannot say what exactly it did for me - but i like the idea that its safe to use longer term and doesn't harm the microbiome much - so could be a useful addition to a bart protocol

i don't know how to work out how much of the precursors turn into actual allicin - or what conditions are required - but i guess if its zhang's then it at least has some kind of track record - so could just go with that.

some people just use freeze dried garlic powder - which will work also - but i think the daily dose is in the 5-10g a day range and i think my gut would react to all those oligosaccharides

bluelyme said...
i dunno where i heard it was 2x as powerful as regular allicin but zhangs label says 250mg of proprietary allicin. 1 pill was like taking a 500mg and daily dose was like 6 , to get 3000mg of other was just as costly . i dont think whole or freeze dried has same purification and reduction process . i read someone would have to eat couple hundred whole cloves to get the same dosing .

remember bart has two cell walls protecting itself so another "killer" need be on board to be effective...

actually the label says Zhang's allicin contains 250mg of "proprietary extract of garlic bulb " per capsule - rather than pure allicin.
and the description says "This extract of garlic contains slow-released allitridi, one of the active components in garlic"

i believe allitridi is a precursor of allicin - but it does not say how much of it is actually in the 250mg of extract per capsule - and i don't know how much allicin is formed by the breakdown of allitridi or in what conditions.....

basically the usual vagueness in herb based supplements - or maybe there is a patent issue that means they cant produce pure allicin ...

bluelyme said...
ya i imagine you are correct garzie, probably same fda oversight that makes supplements say "not proven effective for any ailment or cure etc" ... i can say the hh2 combo with allicin seemed to hit lyme harder than iv rocephin did and was much easier to tolerate than the riffy/zith combo for bart.

good to know bluelyme - i am taking a pretty heavy dose of houtty tincture ( along with sida and other co-infection herbs ) - which does seem to help - and thinking of adding allicin of some sort

just to make sure i understand your experience - by hit bart harder but easier to tolerate - do you mean that it just caused improvements without significant herx, or, that it caused a big hit of herx - and then improvement - but not ongoing stomach upset / low cortisol etc that is associated with rifampicin and azithro combo

thanks again

thanks for the article wladek - good to know there is at least some potential issue or upper limit

that is a lot of garlic though - i make that equivalent to 3 large complete bulbs of fresh garlic - assuming 25g per bulb - per day for an 75-90kg adult

maybe this kind of dosing is possible with freeze dried garlic - but would still be some going

that said - usually rats and other rodents are much more tolerant of drugs/chemical than humans due to much faster detox processes ( some methods used in drug trials use a kind of rule of thumb of say 10-12x )

on the other hand - often other mammals have particular sensitivities to some plant compounds that humans do not have - eg dogs and chocolate - so i guess we cannot be sure

so the picture is less than clear - as is typical with herbs

i think there are at lease some reassuring studies of allicin in humans at the normally taken dosages that give some safety assurance - so perhaps its is other compounds in fresh garlic that have the hepatoxic effects?

this cell line study seems to indicate that there is a kind of dose dependent effect transition from undetectable levels of toxicity to significant at concentrations of allicin above around 0.03mM - which i think is well above therapeutic does used - but i haven't done the calculations on that

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/pmc5384165/

there was also some mention of a reactive species flare initiated by garlic juice but not allicin - meaning that other compounds in Garlic Juice - apart from the allicin could be having separate toxic effects - which is interesting

Omega33 said...


Need to correct you here. Allimed has 135 mcg (Yes micrograms!!!!) of allicin. 'Allisure' is a made up term consisting of 99% maltodextrin. If you email Allimax USA and UK then will not reply telling you the actual allicin dose BUT finally Allimax canada gave me the info. 135mc is very very very small. This is a scam company using sketchy marketing techniques. They give me 'trade show product' vibes and the USA branch is run by a woman who is literally charged 4x the UK price. Greedy scam artist.

yes - i concur

this is an old thread - allicin - Allimax - and Allimed content etc have been discussed since.

interestingly - there are quite a lot of patients of Dr M on the breaking down bartonella Facebook group - and some reported that Dr M is aware of the above info and still stands by the Allimed/Alimax brand - which seems strange to me and many others and very hard to credit.
but apparently he claims to see results clinically that support its use.

it seems there is either something else in the product that has beneficial effects or the placebo effect is having a strong influence on the patient experience ( not uncommon - hence the need for placebo controlled trials in all drug approval processes - placebo effect can often be as much as 30-40% in trials).

anecdotally there seem to be broadly around the same number of people in that group who report benefit from allicin to those that report zero effect.

one of the members of that group posted this lab comparison of allicin content - that might be useful to any one researching allicin
VIEW IMAGE

good to have up to date info added to the thread - in case members are searching past thread for info - so thank you for that

carlnpa said...
There is another brand of allicin out there that was not reviewed, Zhou.
I have been using Zhou and definitely herx on this.
No garlic skin or breath aroma, many positive reviews on Amazon, many mentioning Lyme success.
And its very inexpensive compared to other brands.
Claimed 5000 mcg or 5mg allicin.
YMMV

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B014K2ZX6E/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I bought some of the Zhou brand of Garlic that you are referring to here. I have been taking 1 tablet per day. The bottle claims 1 tablet contains 415mg garlic and 5,000 mcg Allicin.

I have done lots of searching and can't really find a good dosing source. In terms of mg for Garlic and mcg for Allicin how much should a person take to try and combat tick borne illness (Bart specifically)?