My smart phone cannot look up the link you put there.

Bull’s-eye rashes are generally pretty big in size. After a few days 3 to 6 inches in diameter is common. And I can get bigger than that after a week or so.

As opposed to a spider biteWhich gets no bigger than three-quarters of an inch or two centimeters in diameter.

i'm struggling to fully understand your question - so not sure how best to answer to help.

are you saying you have chronic Lyme - and are concerned about getting it again / more?

if so, as far as we know it doesn't seem to work like that - if you have chronic Lyme - you already have many many more spirochetes in your body than the tick or whatever bit you - could bring.
so the impact of a few more would typically be minimal.

there is the topic of additional strains adding to the symptoms picture - but as far as i know very little is known about that at present.

however, ticks and biting arthropods in general can transmit a range of pathogens - of which Lyme is just one.
so with any bite there is a chance of additional pathogens being transmitted. the prevalence of this varies by region and by species of biting arthropod and by season.
most can cause fever, aches and joint pain.

I'm not sure anyone here can tell you what the cause in your case is - perhaps the timing is a clue
its not clear from your post how long a delay there was between bite and joint pain appearing
for most of the tick borne diseases its a case of a few days to a few weeks - 5-30 days if often quoted
so if its the lower end or less than this - a tick born infection would seem less likely.

the picture does not seems to show anything that looks like a typical or even atypical bulls eye rash.
bulls eye rashes also typically take between 5 and 30 days to appear - 7 days being given as a common norm - so again is less time than this has passed perhaps just continue to record any changes / progression with photographs

increased fatigue and gut issues after eating, body aches after eating are quite common amongst Lyme sufferers. something about these infections disturbs the gut and once the gut is disturbed the immune system is disturbed and with the immune system disturbed almost any symptoms are possible.
bartonella ( one of the common co-infections) in particular seems to drive this gut disturbance to differing degrees for many people. that may be something you may wish to look into.

a ketogenic diet has helped me me manage those symptoms more than anything else.

Garzie said: “ if so, as far as we know it doesn't seem to work like that - if you have chronic Lyme - you already have many many more spirochetes in your body than the tick or whatever bit you - could bring.
so the impact of a few more would typically be minimal.”

What he said ^^^^^

You continue to treat the infections.
If your current protocol is a pulsed one - I would bump it up to daily antibiotics for a few weeks

Christian, Please let me know if you have further questions regarding my experience and how my immune system reacts to additional bites, especially spider venom and mycoplasma.

Happy to help.

As far as getting another form of tick rash while you’ve already been infected, yes it’s completely possible. Happened to me, a clear large bull’s-eye rash.

For some people those who are obviously ill but still seem to function these tick infections tend to wax and wane. Once lyme is in your nervous system for a long time it’s no longer in your blood in many cases. Some of the testing labs even admit this.

In my case, I have no way of knowing if my immune system cleared up the infection and then I was reinfected with new tick bites?

I’ve had many tick bites throughout my whole life, at least 50 before I was thirty years old.

Those who’ve been infected a long time but not bedridden, this is something we’ve all thought about and wondered. I realize some people with these infections are bedridden and cannot work. However others with this still function, even though it’s obvious they are not quite right. And then on good years are you healed? Or is it still there lingering? Questions we will never know because it’s impossible to prove.

Just curious….

MargaritaLyme said...
I guess it has been proven here than that any other bite you received from here on out cannot possibly generate symptoms.

not so i fear - a person could have lyme and bartonella for instance - then pick up say - anaplasma or babesia - or some other tick born infection - and this would be expected to worsen the symptoms pattern.

if we are talking strictly a lyme infection ( which many LLMD's do not think happens often on its own) - and then a person was bitten by another tick with Lyme and more spirochetes were transferred - then logically - we would not expect more symptoms - as the person already had many more spirochetes running around in them already - so the new spirochetes from the tick would be a drop in the ocean

this is more logical conjecture than proven science though

what we do not know is if a person has say a single strain of borrelia burgdorferi - and then gets bitten again and received another strain - does this add to symptoms picture or severity?

this very much into a grey area - one on which i have seen no published science.

Garzie said...
what we do not know is if a person has say a single strain of borrelia burgdorferi - and then gets bitten again and received another strain - does this add to symptoms picture or severity?

Yeah that's a good point. The only thing I'm aware of is that between the different strains of Lyme is there are differences in clinical symptoms.

So I would think it would cause more symptoms. But like you said, that's just a guess. I know in ticks they negatively affect each other, so it's possible only one strain is dominant.

I think the only thing that's for sure is that there are differences in symptoms depending on the strain. For example in one study the Borrelia garinii strain causes neuroborreliosis in 83% of the people, whereas Borrelia afzelii only caused neuroborreliosis in 10%. (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16912943/)

Some of the other differences are:

Borrelia burgdorferi : arthritis
Borrelia garinii : neurological symptoms
Borrelia afzelii: chronic skin condition (acrodermatitis chronica atrophicans)

They also share many similarities obviously.

Additionally, from what I've read on other forums the European strains are more often associated with fatigue. I'm guessing that's mostly garinii, but this is a guess on my part.

Some ticks carry multiple strains which negatively (or positively depending on how you look at it) affect each other (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/pmc5244308/)

Here's some other stuff that's interesting:

Some differences between strains (also mentioned above):
https://www.lymediseaseaction.org.uk/about-lyme/the-bacteria/

Treating Borrelia afzelli:
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamadermatology/fullarticle/478082

Some quotes from this study: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejm200107123450207

--> "Acrodermatitis chronica atrophicans, caused primarily by B. afzelii"

--> "Severe radicular pain and pleocytosis; less prominent headache and neck stiffness, caused particularly by B. garinii"

--> Severe encephalomyelitis, spasticity, cognitive abnormalities, and marked intrathecal antibody production, caused primarily by B. garinii

--> In up to 5 percent of untreated patients, b. Burgdorferi may cause chronic neuroborreliosis, sometimesafter long periods of latent infection.39 in both the united states and europe, a chronic axonal polyneuropathy may develop, manifested primarily as spinalradicular pain or distal paresthesias. electromyograms typically show diffuse involvement of both proximal and distal nerve segments. In europe, b. Garinii may cause chronic encephalomyelitis, characterized by spastic paraparesis, cranial neuropathy, or cognitive impairment with marked intrathecal production of antibodies against the spirochete. in the united states, a mild, late neurologic syndrome has been reported, called lyme encephalopathy, manifested primarily by subtle cognitive disturbances. although there are no inflammatory changes in the cerebrospinal fluid, the intrathecal production of antibodies against the spirochete can often be demonstrated. Neither single-photon-emission computed tomography of the brain nor neuropsychological tests of memoryhave sufficient specificity to be helpful in the diagnosis. Lyme encephalopathy may be treated successfully with a one-month course of intravenous ceftriaxonetherapy, but immune-mediated or postinfectiousphenomena may also play a part in the pathogenesisof these syndromes. One unusual case of b. Burgdorferiinduced meningoencephalitis and cerebral vasculitis has been reported that was unresponsive to antibiotics. in this case, a t-cell clone recovered from the cerebrospinal fluid responded both to spirochetal epitopes and to autoantigens.

In my neck of the woods, the most successful LLMD’s use the “shotgun”treatment Theory. And that is also why medical insurance will never cover them.

You start with your gut because that is the most successful immune system you’ll ever have. And move outward from there treating several possible infections sometimes at once, just hoping to have some sort of a treatment overlap. Because they all know you never have just one infection up here, that’s a given and pretty much a certainty.

The first half of my life I spent a lot of time in the woods and fields between the woods. Unbelievable how many ticks I had, and different types. I’m a little more educated in my above freezing outdoor excursions nowadays.

I don’t much care for winter but the fact that the ticks are hibernating under snow and leaf litter is one good thing about it.

MargaritaLyme said...
Ahhhh….childhood in the midwestern states of the U.S.,crawling through the woods without a care. How sweet it was!

Haha.....It sure seemed like it at the time....

I just wonder how easier school would have been without tick infections, like being mentally awake for it. And not sore all the time

Hey guys, just an update.

It’s 9 days after the bite and I’ve still been having joint pain in my neck, wrists, and legs each day. I took an updated picture of the bite today (shaved my leg to see it better):

https://ibb.co/Jt8FDhV

Also, the joint pain started 2.5 days after the initial bite, and I’ve also had some brain fog and dizziness the past week, which could just be from the side effects of stopping the supplement I’m on. I just would rather be safe then sorry if I need to take antibiotics.

Thanks again for the help,
Christian

I wouldn’t get caught up with the bite mark - lyme rashes come in many shapes and sizes.

I stand by my initial thoughts - if you’re pulsing the abx - bump up to daily for a few weeks.