Can Methylene Blue etch the oral cavity? Sore throat symptoms...

No idea about MB. Could you have COVID?

i take mine in capsule form that i make myself from the pure powder - so i have no direct experience

in high doses (400mg + per day ) its known to irritate the urinary tract - so i guess its possible that it could irritate the oral cavity / oesophagus also - but seems less likely at the dose you are taking - being 1/10th of that

why not switch to capsules ?

"Symptoms may include fever and lymph node enlargement following the break in the skin. It may be accompanied by headaches, sore throat, decreased appetite with weight loss, as well as vomiting. It’s important for physicians to remember to consider Bartonella as it can be an important cause of what is medically referred to as an FUO or “fever of unknown origin.” "

From: https://www.globallymealliance.org/blog/all-about-bartonella-the-stealth-pathogen-that-can-be-seen-without-a-microscope

MartinK said...

@Garzie: Hey, I have raw powder too. From CZTL, which I thought was the best quality. Really good idea with capsules! You mixed it with some filler and then put in capsule?
I did liquid from powder to tincture bottle with dropper.
I don't know why I didn't think of the capsules... thx! ;-)

yep - i mix with a filler ( i use MSM as I'm using that anyway ) and calculate the ratio to mix MSM powder and MB to give me the dose i require
you need to know / measure the effective density of the filler you are using and/ or work out how much each capsule holds to calculate how to do the mix
i made a spreadsheet for that
but as a rough method you could just make a batch of capsules and weight them before(empty) and after filling - this will tell you how much total filler powder your capsules hold
then workout how much MB you want in each capsule - and use that to work out the ratio of the MB to filler powder you need to mix - and mix a bit extra to ensure you have enough to fill all the caps

its messy of course - so i mix enough for about 1 month at a time

and get everything i need to touch ready before i break out the MB so i don't spread blue around the house
i make them on a dinner plate on a polythene covered tray - so i can just fold up the polythene and bin it after and then wash the plate.

tickbite666 said...
MartinK stated above.... "@RainyCloud: I probably don't have Bart. No positive tests in last 7 years. I do MB in protocol for Lyme mainly. But one never knows when tests cannot be 100% trusted."

I didn't have a positive Bart test until last July from IgNex, after 11 years of treatment. I had several negative tests from Galaxy Labs as well, and they are supposed to do the best Bart tests. I didn't get significant neuro sx improvements until I got real aggressive treating Bart with Levequin and Cipro about 6 years ago. I would also get some throat and sinus sx when Bart flared or from a herx. However, every time I reduced or stopped ABX, I would relapse. I too am on my first Meth Blue protocol (2 months in) along with Clarithromysin, Bactrim, and lumbrokenase.

Good luck with this round of treatment.

ref testing - its all relative

galaxy are pretty open and honest and their published paper only claims 49% sensitivity
which is low for most infectious diseases - but very good for bart - the best anyone reliable has published so far i think

my guess is the igenex bart western blot - which is probably the next best is about half that

and standard serological tests probably half that again - so its not surprising people can test negative for years but actually have bart all along

i was tested by Armin labs negative for bart - and yet i have found it unequivocally in my blood -
its not really the labs fault - its just a very hard bug to detect as it seems to mess with the immune system so expected antibodies are not present

i read galaxy and Dr M find that patients are very rarely both seropositive and PCR positive - but either one or the other - which is v odd - no one knows why exactly

good luck both of you

i am also on MB and herbs and about to add some form of macrolide

ref testing - the other option - which is not documented in any text i have found on bartonella is doing your own thin blood smears with giemsa stain at 1000x.
the text books basically say that bart does not take stain well and is in any case too small to see via standard light microscopy - and this is sort of true

however, what they do not cover is that the characteristic pattern of holes or vacuoles that bartonella makes in red blood cells are easily stained with giemsa stain and then easy to see with standard microscopy - so whilst this is time consuming and requires some self training - it makes it possible to find bartonella infections even when antibodies are not present and serologic testing fails. see my microscopy thread for details.
(this method is documented by Dr M and is reliable, but not in the textbooks)

the cost is also less than a single PCR based test - and the same equipment can then be used on a repeat basis to track progress through treatment - similar to how Tlabs does it

Post Edited (Garzie) : 7/30/2022 9:47:17 AM (GMT-7)

yep Rainy - its a seriously overlooked way of detecting bartonella

i think the major test houses do not promote it as its very labour intensive - and there is no proprietary element that they can use to charge high prices for.

i am actually considering offering the microscopy slides testing as a service

people could do their own blood smears on the slides ( takes little practice but entirely doable at home )
this is a link to a video demonstration of how to do it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqxy45srjkw

then send the slides to me in the post - i would then stain them and do the microscopy
i would send them a report with photos - much like the t-labs ones



the method is able to detect :
-bartonella infected red blood cells
-fibrin deposits - indicative of bartonella infection
-various other brightly coloured biofilm deposits
-platelet activation and aggregation ( indicative of an infection activating the immune system - commonly found in bartonella patients)
-potentially Babesia infection
-potentially other blood borne parasite infections - if present in the slides - eg Trypanosomes, filaria etc

the benefits are
-it does not rely on the patient producing the expected antibodies ( something we know often does not happen)
-its is a direct method - not reliant on indirect measures, antigens, antibodies, immune fluorescence etc etc
-the patient gets to see what i see - not just a number on a test sheet

i'm not saying its perfect - as no form of testing is - but it detected my bart when lab testing could not
and it could be a good option vs the cost of the high end tests - which are still only 50% sensitive for bartonella

Post Edited (Garzie) : 7/30/2022 10:10:57 AM (GMT-7)

Garzie said...

then send the slides to me in the post - i would then stain them and do the microscopy
i would send them a report with photos - much like the t-labs ones

This is a brilliant idea Garzie. Are you thinking of doing it? You could help many people 🙂

MartinK said...


btw. about making capsules with MB - I'm thinking of using casein or magnesium - it's probably not a bad filler, is it?
I have a fairly accurate scale for weighing raw peptides powders, so I believe I could make fairly accurately weighed capsules.
I just hope the mixing will be accurate. I have no experience with that.

i think anything relatively inert can function as a filler - a supplement you take anyway can work
avoid anything that is strongly acidic or oxidising - eg vitamin C as this can react with MB
i would also select something that is a nice fine pourable type powder that's not supper fluffy or compressible - as that will make tamping into capsules very variable process - and doses will be likewise variable

ref the scales - you can buy this type of thing for cheap from ebay etc - and i have been surprised how accurate and repeatable they are

you actually do not need hyper accuracy - as you will not weight single doses - but - depending on your capsule machine - 24 or 48 doses at a a time
as an example for 48 doses of 60mg of MB per dose - i mix 3.66g of MB and 26.50g of MSM and pack these into size 00 capsules - with a bit leftover

if you are using a different filler - i would just make 24 capsules of pure filler - weigh the capsules empty and full - which will tell you the volume and weight of filler in each capsule accurately - and then you can work out how much MB to put in the mix to make a batch of 24 or 48

if you send me an email i can send you the spreadsheet i use for that

be very interested to see what comes back from the electron microscopy - if you have chance to correspond with them - ask then to look in particular at any vacuoles or inclusions inside red blood cells electron microscopy resolution is high enough to see actual bartonella bacteria inside the vacuoles inside red blood cells

hi Martin

i just use standard gelatine or vegetarian equivalent capsules - but i see no reason why enteric types would not work just as well - MB is absorbed mainly in the small intestine - enteric ones are designed to open here

ref your email - i have it Martin will reply ASAP

cheers!
Ben

I treated all three B’s
Borrelia, Babesia and Bartonella)

I tested positive for Lyme after about a year of symptoms.
But didn’t do bart or Babs testing.
My first LLND didn’t ask me to - nor did my LLMD.

But my llmd treated me for all three “B” s

To not treat - after a negative test is a mistake (IMO) as the infections continue to wreak havoc.

Interestingly tho - after treating Bart with my LLND - I went to another LLND close to home.
She had me do a cheap test here in Canada. I believe it was $100 for each infection.
I was positive for Bartonella.
It was a pcr test - dna of Bartonella was in the blood sample.

Garzie, et al,
Have you reviewed your source testing data on impurities? "Even pharmaceutical (USP) grade MB contains impurities, such as arsenic, aluminum, cadmium, mercury and lead. At low doses, the presence of contaminants is not of great concern, but at higher doses non-specific effects due to accumulation of various toxic and bioactive substances are possible. (found on a quick search at URL: https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/heavy-metal-contamination-of-methylene-blue.21693/ ).
Unless you have guaranteed source-testing to review, maybe reconsider. Many practitioners have ceased its use due to the heavy metal toxicity. Just my 2 cents. I already carry a too-high toxic burden and work to detox constantly; I've no desire to intentionally add to that burden. There are many, many alternatives that don't carry that risk.