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Supplemental winter vitamin D discussion thread, pros and cons

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Posted 12/10/2022 12:56 PM (GMT -5)
There’s been vitamin D discussions here in the past I don’t remember if it was a particular thread though. And when you bring up old topics there’s always new people on the forum, so I’m not.

This is usually on the news this time of year mentioning that people should get their vitamin D levels checked and supplement if needed.

Well I stop taking vitamin D. I did not start it back up fall 2021. I just do not feel any benefit from it, which is weird. I think vitamin D actually makes me kind of edgy it’s certainly not relaxing. And the actual sunshine is relaxing so I don’t understand this difference.

So I think it was late fall of 2021 I took a vitamin D test again with no supplementation in me and it was around 35. That’s a little low. With supplementation my levels would usually be around 60 to 70, but I think I actually felt worse.

So this is always been interest of me along with lack of light and “happy light”discussions here since I live in a northern state cloudy winter low sun state.

So what are your experiences with it ? I invite any latest news information about this!
Posted 12/10/2022 1:11 PM (GMT -5)
Interesting note my health insurance does not cover vitamin D testing anymore for the average population that lives around here. That is really weird.

You have to be included in the list of prerequisites, one of them being gluten sensitive which has nothing to do with vitamin D, but that’s why I got my vitamin D tested for free two falls ago.!!

Post Edited (astroman) : 12/10/2022 10:22:34 AM (GMT-8)

Posted 12/10/2022 1:47 PM (GMT -5)
Context: I live in New England, where basically everyone has "low" vitamin D by February.

My partner develops depression and skin issues this time of year, and vitamin D supplementation helps with both. Time in the sun helps more, but there's only nine hours of sunlight these days, and most of them are spent working a very indoor computer-related job.

I don't notice a difference with vitamin D supplementation. Folks I know who supplement seem to have the same vitamin D levels as folks who don't, and similar rates of Seasonal Affective Disorder.

The full-spectrum light lamps, however, seem to help everyone I know personally who tries them. I'm using one at this very moment. smile
Posted 12/10/2022 1:59 PM (GMT -5)
I just find it odd that I feel better without vitamin D supplementation, Even though it increases my levels. I often wonder if this is other people’s experience as well. Kinda why I posted this. As I mentioned, it makes me kind of jittery / antsy it’s like having caffeine when you don’t want it.

Yeah I always say I’ll try the happy light and I plan on it sometime lol.

Apparently the sun is scheduled to make an appearance sometime tomorrow afternoon. I guess that’s free - no tickets or cover charge.

When my lyme was really bad I would get seasonal effectiveness disorder a lot worse , it’s kind of minimal now. Back then it was a depression but not as bad as some people get it. Now it’s more of low level anxiety, But can get worse if I have a lot on my plate to get done.

Post Edited (astroman) : 12/10/2022 11:02:25 AM (GMT-8)

Posted 12/10/2022 2:17 PM (GMT -5)
The vitamin D issue is that some people with Lyme disease and other chronic infections seem to excessively convert vitamin D to the 1,25-dihydroxy form. If you're going to test for this, you need two blood tests, the usual 25-OH-D test, and a test for 1,25-(OH)2-D.

The 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D induces expression of a bunch of liver enzymes (CYP3A4, CYP2B6, CYP2C9) which destroys cortisol, causing the adrenal symptoms and nervousness.

Why this happens is not entirely clear. One theory is that the infections mess with the immune system, causing macrophages to produce large amounts of 1,25-(OH)2-D. Another theory is that it is partially genetic, specifically that deletions in or near the NCF1 gene cause both immune system dysfunction and vitamin D dysregulation.
Posted 12/10/2022 2:37 PM (GMT -5)
I think my test from quest is called vitamin D – 25. I’ll see look back at the results see if it was a little more specific toward what you mentioned.

Interesting information Quinn, I have CYP3A4. I’ll have to look again on my gene test to make sure.

I’ve never heard of that making a vitamin D issue. Where did you ever read this it’s not a well-known lyme fact?

Post Edited (astroman) : 12/10/2022 11:44:07 AM (GMT-8)

Posted 12/10/2022 2:43 PM (GMT -5)
There are two tests which can be ordered

https://requestatest.com/vitamin-d-25-hydroxy-testing
https://requestatest.com/vitamin-d-1-25-dihydroxy-testing

What will show up, if you're the sort of person to have bad reactions to vitamin D, is that the 25-hydroxy will be slightly low, but the 1,25-dihydroxy will be normal or increased.
Posted 12/10/2022 2:47 PM (GMT -5)
Wow, good info!
Posted 12/10/2022 3:00 PM (GMT -5)
Whether conventional or functional, docs seem to all jump on the Vit d bandwagon. I take 5000 international units daily. Whether or not it helps me remains to be seen. Perhaps it does benefit my body in ways that I cannot actually feel.



I have also read that those with autoimmune issues may benefit.
Posted 12/10/2022 3:02 PM (GMT -5)

Quin said...
The vitamin D issue is that some people with Lyme disease and other chronic infections seem to excessively convert vitamin D to the 1,25-dihydroxy form.

Is this anecdotal or is there any place where we can read more about this? Specifically in Lyme Disease.
Posted 12/10/2022 3:15 PM (GMT -5)
I was taking 10 to 15,000 international units of D to get me from around 30 to 40 to 60 to 70. That was before I stopped it. And I probably did that for about five years. Then I finally realized it made me feel like crap, And felt better without it.

Post Edited (astroman) : 12/10/2022 12:30:58 PM (GMT-8)

Posted 12/10/2022 3:31 PM (GMT -5)
The dysregulation of vitamin D has long been associated with chronic granulomatous disease

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1582115/

Anecdotally this is seen in lyme disease. There have been numerous threads about it on this forum, and I also recall Dr M saying that he's seen it with bartonella too (about 1:28 in the video)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njywmmpjiku

NCF1 deletion is associated with CGD

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30651282/

Some patients with large genetic deletions around the NCF1 gene (as in Williams syndrome) show severe vitamin D problems even in infancy, not necessarily associated with chronic infection. This observation leads to questions as to what degree the vitamin D abnormality is caused by infections, and to what degree it might be genetic.
Posted 12/10/2022 3:37 PM (GMT -5)
I participated or maybe even made up one of those posts in the past.

But I don’t recall anyone mentioning the reason why like what you just did

Post Edited (astroman) : 12/10/2022 1:08:14 PM (GMT-8)

Posted 12/10/2022 6:18 PM (GMT -5)
35 ng/mL is not that bad. I've sometimes had to get mine below 20 to keep the 1,25 (OH)2D normal.

Anyway, the adverse effect on the adrenals is likely because of liver enzymes, similar to the effect of rifampin:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11991950/
Posted 12/10/2022 6:51 PM (GMT -5)
Quin, do you have a sense of whether the vitamin D people produce from sun exposure can be involved in this process (hence the Marshall Protocol)? Would folks like Astroman who feel bad with vitamin D supplementation also feel bad after sun exposure?
Posted 12/10/2022 7:43 PM (GMT -5)
In my case, I feel good with real sun, Unless it’s 95 and humid in the summer I love the sun.
Posted 12/11/2022 3:39 PM (GMT -5)
Looking up in the sky, is it a fireball, a daytime meteor, no, it’s the sun, wow. It appeared on time impressive,... feels good. Enough to melt some snow
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