HealingWell
Search Close Search
☰

Ivermectin causing cross-resistance???

Support Forums
>
Lyme Disease
✚ New Topic ✚ Reply
❬ ❬ Previous Thread |Next Thread ❭ ❭
Posted 8/2/2024 4:20 AM (GMT -5)
I don't know if I am overthinking but I thought about adding ivermectin for treating parasites but don't know what to do after reading the below study about possible cross-resistance to several antibiotics after taking ivermectin.

I am currently treating borrelia, babesia and bartonella with herbs and azithro + malastad (atovaquone/proguanil). I do seem to have parasite-problems too... have treated some rounds with mebendazole which definately have helped me. Therefore I thought of maybe adding ivermectin for more broadacting parasitic treatment but I saw this study that indicates that taking ivermectin (mentioned as IV in the study, MX is another anthelmintic that also was studied) made some bacterias resistant to several antibiotics - see below from the study.

Do any of you have any thought of this? I hear many people taking ivermectin and benefit from it for these infections but now I don't know what to do... I am tired of me being so easily worried....

(Info: Below I have copied som info from the study. The numbers in the beginning of the text is from the study and is noting the number of respective line.)

The study: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2024.01.17.575993v1.full.pdf

189 Bacterial isolates display adaptation to IV/MX and a selection of antibiotics after
190 anthelminthic challenging experiments: Since IV and MX inhibit bacterial growth in a
191 broad range of isolates, we aimed to test whether sensitive bacterial isolates can adapt to
192 repeated sub-inhibitory exposure of IV and MX and whether this adaptation changes the
193 antibiotic susceptibility profiles of these isolates.

...

Interestingly, in the macrolide and lincosamide resistant
281 isolate S. pneumoniae (02), anthelminthic challenging seemed to exert a broad-spectrum
282 effect as both, IV- and MX-challenged isolates displayed decreased sensitivity towards all
283 antibiotic classes it was tested against (macrolides, lincosamide, tetracycline,
284 fluoroquinolone, and carbapenem). In addition, this broad-spectrum interaction between
285 anthelminthic and macrolide or lincosamide resistance was also observed in S. mitis (01-IVc),
286 S. mitis (01-MXc) and S. dysgalactiae (01-IVc).
Posted 8/2/2024 12:02 PM (GMT -5)
i'm not sure there is much actual new news in this study

ie we should not be surprised to hear that bacteria react similarly to a drug ( ivermectin) as they do to other drugs that have a similar structures

eg if they had done those experiments with a common macrolide like clarithromycin - they would have obtained similar results

its also important to realise that these types of studies are deliberately designed to induce bacterial resistance mutations to occur in the lab - but giving low enough doses that plenty of bacteria always survive and then reputedly culturing the survivors to preferentially select and accelerate mutations. this is not how they are used in practice.

we should also be cautious as this is a preprint paper at this stage - not yet peer reviewed - so we are really not yet able to draw any conclusions from it.

lastly - the was a wave of anti-ivermectin stories in press and scientific journals after the emergence of ivermectin as a possible treatment for COVID-19 - there was a rift in the scientific community with some becoming strong advocates for its use and official government sources being very much against it - so there became pro and anti-ivermectin wars - and i would just a bit wary of such stories potentially being a part of that distortion.
Posted 8/4/2024 1:18 AM (GMT -5)
Thank you Garzie for your thoughts!

Garzie said...

lastly - the was a wave of anti-ivermectin stories in press and scientific journals after the emergence of ivermectin as a possible treatment for COVID-19 - there was a rift in the scientific community with some becoming strong advocates for its use and official government sources being very much against it - so there became pro and anti-ivermectin wars - and i would just a bit wary of such stories potentially being a part of that distortion.

I agree that there has become a lot of polarisation about ivermectin, not good at all if that is what is shown in this study!

Garzie said...

ie we should not be surprised to hear that bacteria react similarly to a drug ( ivermectin) as they do to other drugs that have a similar structures

eg if they had done those experiments with a common macrolide like clarithromycin - they would have obtained similar results

I read that ivermectin had a similar structur as azithromycin and that family of abx so I totally understand that using ivermectin can cause resistance also to macrolides.. but, if the study is correct, they say that they saw decreased sensitivity agains all tested abx-familys (macrolides, lincosamide, tetracycline,
284 fluoroquinolone, and carbapenem) and that I don't understand and made me worried.
Posted 8/4/2024 6:00 AM (GMT -5)
ah, there is a misunderstanding here

these experiments are aimed at understanding and reducing the risk of antimicrobial resistance at a global population level - not in individual patients

the experiments are specifically designed to greatly speed up the process of bacterial mutation and positive selection in laboratory conditions

they do not represent what happens inside individuals

all they really show - is that the more you use a drug globally( or drugs similar to it) they more likely a mutation will occur somewhere in the world that causes resistance to that drug. something we already know.

similar drug resistance genes can confer resistance to more than one antibiotic - as the mechanisms are often more general - for example as happens in MRSA

again - i hope it helps
Posted 8/4/2024 6:52 AM (GMT -5)
Thank you again Garzie! I understand the mechanism more now! 🌸

I see that you have been taking ivermectin. Have you found it helpful?
✚ New Topic ✚ Reply