Modified Citrus Pectin & Herx

Recently, I bought Pectasol from Econugenics based on presentations at the recent LymeSummit talks. I was convinced by a presentation on Modified Citrus Pectin and it's benefits and how that could be useful in Lyme.

I started with the full recommended dose which was clearly a mistake. Still, I only took it for a few days and it has caused a massive debilitating herx. I'm wondering why that could be. Apparently it can bind toxins, breakdown biofilm, and increase natural killer cells.

My guess is it binded too many toxins and I couldn't eliminate them fast enough, but, other binding agents like activated charcoal or betonoite clay have not had this severe of a herx effect for me.

Has anybody else tried MCP and experienced this?

Garzie said...
Anything that either kills or promotes the growth of gut bacteria causes herx symptoms in my case.

This includes probiotics and prebiotics like MCP.

My working hypothesis is that we have immune reactions to the gut bacteria or their by products - which are increased by MCP.

Interesting!

I'd agree things that can change gut composition can induce symptoms. One of the reasons I'm taking MCP is it's apparent ability to help dysbiosis/heal loose junctions in leaky gut per presentation I watched at LymeSummit conference. Once this flare dies down I'm going to try again with a much much smaller dose.

Have you ever tried MCP?

Garzie said...
i think the last prebiotic i tried was PHGG - partially hydrolysed guar gum

similar idea to modified fruit pectin i think - basically easy to access food for the beneficial microbes

i think many of us just cannot tolerate all the things that people with normal guts can - including things that on paper should be good for our guts etc

before lyme i could eat literally anything
since lyme - i have to limit fibre and carbs - or all symptoms are worse

its frustrating - but i hope it will normalise when the infections are cleared
my partner had worse gut issues than me with lyme and bart - and hers more or less returned to normal as she got better

I'm taking PHGG right now. I was tolerating that well. I've tried upping my fiber over time. This has seemed to help some gut symptoms and form of poop, but other gut issues such as sensitivities, bloating, stomach spasms, constipation, have remained.

While I have you I know you have experienced benefit by going going low carb high fat. Are you strict like pee on a stick daily type of keto or are you more just eyeballing it and going by feel? How are your lipid tests? Are you worried about cardiovascular disease/atherosclerosis long term?

yep - i would like to eat more fibre - and have tried introducing more over time - while keeping carbs low - but still have the same issues / do not tolerate it well in anything over small quantities

when i was originally experimenting with Keto - i did the super controlled dipstick thing - and found i needed to keep total carbs from all sources below around 20-25g per day and limit protein to stay in full ketosis.
my partner who was female and with less muscle mass had to be much stricter - more like under 10g a day to stay in ketosis
most people who try it eat to much protein - which the liver just converts to glucose - and they are not really in ketosis at all - its actually extremely difficult to stay fully in ketosis - almost no one really does it - despite what they say or think.

but a lot of the benefits come with just being low carb - so its not essential to be in ketosis for all of the upsides

i am more low carb than keto these days - eating under 50g of total carbs per day - getting most energy from fats - trying to get fibre intake up and increase the varieties of fibre - rather than just quantity

overall i don't think the gut can be normal while i have bart and lyme - its inflamed - unbalanced - leaky - the immune system is upset etc - i doubt anything we can put in there will solve that as long as the infections are present / active - so i feel the job is to minimise the ill effects / manage it as best we can until the treatment is complete

my triglycerides and cholesterol numbers were a little over the optimal range before i started keto - despite good diet etc
this is expected as these reflect inflammation in the vascular system - which both bart and lyme do.

after keto and on low carb they are much the same and stable - not increasing over time
when a person is using fat as their main energy source - then these numbers are expected to be higher - after all - the fats have to get from the gut to the muscles to be used - and they make that journey via the blood - so you will see that in the lipid numbers.

its quite well established now that people on keto / low carb will have higher values of lipids than people on high carb diets - but without increased risks of cardiovascular disease

in addition - i had an angiogram after around 5 years of eating this way - and despite a family history of cardiovascular disease, i am in the clear

i think inflammation is the real danger for cardiovascular health - be that caused by poor diet (industrial oils, ultra processed food, excessive carb intake), high blood sugar, smoking, lack of exercise, air pollution, stress etc etc -

ketogenic/low carb diets do not cause inflammation - they lower it compared to standard Western diets.
hence, i think they lower risk of cardiovascular disease - not raise it.

pinkblossom said...
thank you for sharing about the histamine Loski as I was thinking of looking this supplement up then I read that so decided not to bother, so that was good to know!

There are other brands out there that don’t have this issue - although I never ventured much that way. It’s a bit odd as Dr. E (founder behind this) speaks of benefits for allergies and GI health etc.. perhaps I’m seeing something incorrectly but thought I’d throw my 2 cents out there.

WalkingbyFaith said...
I used Pectasol-C for about a year, I think. If I recall correctly, the full dose was either 15mg (3 scoops). I started with about 1/4 a scoop and worked my way up. I got up to 10mg (2 scoops), I think. I do recall taking an extra scoop at times to see what effect it had, because I wasn’t sure if it was doing anything, and I felt worse with the higher dose.

I remember reading about the study that the creator of Pectasol-C did on people with high counts of lead. They were given 20mg of Pectasol-C, and their lead levels were significantly reduced.

Lead was the only metal mentioned, so I don’t know if it removes mercury or other metals or not. If you have a significant herx from it, it’s possible that you may have elevated levels of lead. Have you ever had heavy metals testing done? I never had the tests.

heyo, thanks for the post. Yep, I had considered that the Pectasol caused my body to try to excrete too many heavy metals at once. I have had heavy metal testing done and all my levels were normal.

I have lots of gut issues and dysbiosis so I'm leaning that way, but hard to say for sure. I'm putting the MCP on the back burner for a bit while I onboard some other things I'm adding in after my last doctor's appt. It took me nearly a week and half to get over that flare that started with MCP!

i herxed with berberine powerfully even at low - moderate doses

it is an antimicrobial -

but what's interesting is that its not supposed to cross the gut membrane much at all
so its seems the mechanisms driving the herx are likely to be taking place inside the gut

rather than killing bacteria systemically