Is remission possible?

many people do reach remission despite multiple co-infections including bartonella and babesia

the fact that you have made progress already is a good sign -

many LLMD's like to tackle Babesia first - which looks like what you are doing

if you are making progress- however slow - i would advise to just keep going
its normal for complex cases to be slow to respond - and may even feel like its not responding at times
but stick at it and often you realise you have been gradually moving forward over time
we see a lot of people who think treatment should be quick - with big steps expected in a few weeks or months - but for people who have been sick for years this is rarely the case
we have some recent studies showing 2-3 years of consistent combination abx treatment is a more typical for complex or severe cases

no one wants to be on antibiotics for the rest of their life - the people that do are doing so because its the best option for them - but unless you have been doing so for several years already its likely too soon to tell - so not worth worrying about at this stage as it doesn't change what you are doing - ie follow the treatment plan and see where you end up.

the cost of the medications can be mitigated by using online pharmacies which are often only a fraction of the price of brick and mortar pharmacies

the other angle to look at is to try to unpick what is holding you back from recovering sooner - there are lots of resources for this - eg Horowitz and his 16 point MSIDS model ( see his books ) or Dr J and his blocking factors - (see his videos ) generally its factors influencing or loading the hosts immune system that are holding people back - and if these can be relieved then recovery speeds up.

i hope its of some help

Nattylev1126 said...
Has anyone went into remission with babesia and bartonella I have both and was told I’ll be on medication the rest of my life. I’ve been taking atovaquone, rifabutin, arakoda, lumbrokinase, artem, and vitamins NAC, vitamin c and d, low dose aspirin, vitron c, multivitamin. Although I’ve improved from when I first started I don’t want to be on expensive medications the rest of my life does anyone have any suggestions. ❤️

I am in remission.
I treated Babesia,Bartonella and Lyme.
I am off all the medications and have been back to work for a few years.

I fully believe that most chronic Lyme sufferers are really dealing with Autoimmune/Compromised Immunodeficiency at the core. From most of the info that I have read, most of these (Babesia, Bartonella and even Lyme) are somewhat self-limiting. Strengthen your immune system, and most of these will take care of themselves. Unfortunately, as I can testify to, it is not that easy, and for most there is no "magic bullet", becoming a long term (if not life-long) series of struggles.

Rob

Quin said...
The idea of strengthening your immune system to deal with these infections seems attractive, but it doesn't really work.

To kill off these infections would require your immune system to produce so much superoxide and nitric oxide that it would be damaging to healthy tissue. When my superoxide production became too excessive, it created a horrible burning smell and I felt totally sick.

Also, constantly stimulating your immune system risks creating autoantibodies, and you don't want that either.

The real solution is to kill off these infections slowly, and keep your immune system healthy enough to deal with it.

Then how would you explain the reactivated microbes that some of us experience, such as EBV? Spend a lifetime with no issues then a lyme infection brings it back. I personally don’t believe you have to eradicate totally to be well. I actually have doubts you can eradicate.

I realize that goes against Dr Horowitz’s and others philosophy, but I don’t prescribe to their ways of doing things. Hopefully we all find the path to where we want to be regardless of the opposing ideologies.

Post Edited (Rampage) : 10/10/2024 9:43:36 AM (GMT-4)

Bhava123 said...
Dear friends,
thanks for an interesting discussion.
Rampage, are you saying you dont agree with abx treatments approaches suggested by Dr H, Dr J etc?
I believe that is is actually possible to get into complete remission, I know a friend with severe neurolyme being fully healthy after pulsing abx treatment. Others somehow live with some ongoing symptoms but do not attempt to arrive to a full recovery.
As for boosting IS, I believe that is is essential and a very imprtant. Yet I believe that borrelia has extraordinary capacity to escape IS, see for example here:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8001052/

and has its sofisticated defence mechanisms that makes the treatment process so long lasting and difficult.
Best regards, B

I believe that borellia can be suppressed into dormancy thru a strong immune system just like other microbes by bolstering it with herbs alone. I’ve spoken with several people that have gone into complete remission in another group I belong to thru herbs alone. As a matter of fact I was recently asked to do a video testimony with this group on how quickly I’m recovering by sticking to the herbs, diet, exercise etc. I have every intention of doing another testimony once I’m totally in remission like the others.

When I first got sick, I thought herbs were some kind of hocus pokus bs, and was actually trying to get in to see Dr, H. A turn in events changed my direction and it’s going great.

I believe it’s possible to get benefits from abx as well, but it comes at a price. That price seems to be holding a lot of people back from what I’ve read here. I tried them at the beginning and had to fix the issues they caused. I hope everyone here finds remission one way or another.

palermo said...
@rampage. I believe herbs are strong and help for a lot of people. I was in kind of remisson for 8 years with just 3 herbs. But there are some points where people dont get out of it! I had a huge flare up and i tried 1 year with just herbs, clean eating and exercising. But my body could not make it out of the hole. So im on abx now. As soon as i feel my level on symptoms is going down, i will change to herbs or at least pulse them. So for sure there is remision, and for sure herbs are strong! But not for everyone its enough...

I hope the abx work for you to reach that finish line. 👍

Garzie said...
some people can reach remission with herbs and lifestyle changes alone

some get well without even those -

and some people never get ill despite being bitten by an infected tick - or just get brief mild symptoms

its highly variable

the problem really comes when the infection/s gets a hold and suppresses and dysregulate the immune system of the host - at this point recovery can be very difficult and slow even if you are doing all the right things

i tried all buhner's herbs for several years - over a dozen herbs for lyme and coinfections all meticulously prepared and taken at max doses - as per his second edition of Healing Lyme - as well as adaptogens - so i can safely say i gave it a fair trial - and it did help somewhat - but i didn't get past 50% recovered with that approach even after years of trying and tweaking and doing all the right things in terms of lifestyle etc.

there is no harm in trying herbs - they do help a lot of people - but we cannot know whether or not we will be a responder or non responder to them at the time - so its best to be wary of ideology and just go step by step.

I assume you switched to abx. Did that get you into remission and how long did it take? Hopefully the 50% improvement from the other stuff made it faster and easier.

I have an LLMD that I uses for tests etc. She mentioned waning to use abx at the end and I’m open to the idea but not positive.

Thats a good question for myself there are two types of remission. 1 Type. you dont have any symptoms anymore and you dont need to treat yourself with any herbs or abx. (this happens rarely but by example girlie) Then Type 2: you feeling great, you dont have any disability in Life, there are some small issues kind of rest symptoms. And you taking some herbs to keep it balanced. I was Type two for 10 Years. But i think if i had an good lyme doctor, and i wasnt stupid in my 20s (Drinking party and stuff) and would keep on treating with puslsed herbs and stuff, i could be probably also type 1. So i think you are able to be part 1, but the road is really long. By exmaple, if im getting better, i will start fix my teeth problems, if i got my teeth problems i will do some IV. Chelat Therapie after that im planing to do an long time Parasite cleaning again. And so on.. so there are a lot of Reasons why you just Typ2, and to get all done it takes a long long time and patience.

Trkane's question is important. How we define remission definitely varies.

For any symptom or condition you can think of, someone somewhere thinks that it's caused by tick-borne infection. Because of this, some people will believe they are battling infections forever because our human bodies will always have something pesky happening.

Others will experience some symptom resolution after a short course of antimicrobials, and then go through life identifying as in remission despite autoimmune conditions, migraines, and loads of other disabling conditions.

There's also no surefire way to prove that symptoms are caused by active tick-borne infections and not something else, including residual damage from infections that have been dealt with.

Personally, I identify as in remission because nearly all of my symptoms resolved, I feel reliably 85% (or more) of my pre-TBD health, and any new symptoms I've had in the past five years have not responded in any way to antimicrobial treatment.

I do think it's interesting to consider how other people define it.

“ I believe it’s possible to get benefits from abx as well, but it comes at a price. That price seems to be holding a lot of people back from what I’ve read here. I tried them at the beginning and had to fix the issues they caused. I hope everyone here finds remission one way or another.”

At first I tried the herbal route but I didn’t get to remission.
Then I went on abx under the care of a LLNP and did get a lot improvement, but not fully. He wasn’t licensed to prescribe to antimalarials and I wondered if it was because I needed to treat Babesia.
That’s when I went to a LLMD in Washington DC

I did get to remission.