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Strange pain in my arm - any ideas ?

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Posted 12/7/2024 12:32 PM (GMT -5)
i still get quite a lot of weird aches and pains with lyme and bart -

sometimes fleeting pains
sometime what feel like injures even when i haven't done anything that i could attribute such an injury to.

over the last year i have noticed that when i take biofilm agents alongside antibiotics ( xylitol, monolaurin, bromelain etc ) i often get very tight painful sensations in my arms and sometimes my lower legs. these affect both arms / legs and manifest as a super stiffness that is painful to move initially after any period of not moving - eg sitting down

over the last month i have these type stiff painful sensations in both arms - but the right arm has something similar but more extreme. like a pulled tendon or something in the outside of my forearm near the elbow - in a line with my little finger. really painful to grip things or clench my fist and hurts to do many day to day activities - so its a bit of a nuisance. its also tender to prod just there on the outside of my elbow so something physical going on with the muscles or tendons i think.

most of these things seem to resolve by themselves - but this thing has been persistent
i can still just about workout - and it actually gets easier and a little less painful when i lift weights - so i dont think its an injury as such as those usually let you know by flaring if you try to do to much - and dont think i am doing it more damage by continuing to workout as long as i am careful ( i would have stopped if it got worse from lifting things).

so i am a bit flummoxed

can't figure out what it is or quite what to do about it

exercise seems to be central to my recovery - so i am reluctant to stop if i can avoid it - and as above it doesn't seem to be making it worse

have tried massaging it to see if that would help - and it doesn't seem to make it better or worse
i can get some mild relief from ibuprofen gel - but that also seems to be merely masking the symptom rather than treating it

does anyone have any ideas of:
1, what it might be
2, what to do to treat / resolve it - DMSO? solomon seal ? trigger point release ?

much appreciated
Posted 12/7/2024 3:26 PM (GMT -5)
I would look into TB4/TB500. It’s really an incredible little peptide and I’ve never heard of a negative result with it. I’m pretty risk averse and feel very comfortable with it.

It’s a naturally occurring peptide in the human body (tb4 is the natural peptide, tb500 is the synthetic version although some people also refer to tb500 as the 1-4 aa fragment, you want the full chain 43aa) and one of the things it seems to do is help rebuild cartilage and lower inflammation on said cartilage. You can see hundreds of success stories on Reddit for things like tendon injuries or tears. It does a lot more however (anti-inflammatory, angiogenic, antifibritic, also relieves EAE in animal models).

I use it for my enthesitis, which is autoimmune tendon inflammation. One spot it likes to hit, actually the most frequent, is exactly that spot on my elbow and the equivalent one in my calves. 10-20mg of tb500 is enough to knock out flare, which would otherwise last a week.

A coworker of mine had recurrent tennis elbow such to the point where he could no longer golf. I recommended it and a couple months later he was back on the links and thanked me.

I know you’re leery of peptides but look into it, lots of info on this one. It’s expensive but I have a very cheap source in China if interested.

Post Edited (dcd2103) : 12/7/2024 3:29:10 PM (GMT-5)

Posted 12/7/2024 3:43 PM (GMT -5)
Seems like typical borrelia symptoms.

The aches and pains in my muscles or my elbow was just herxing from die off, but the pain in my fingers was often blood clots or a pinched nerve. If the borrelia has built up enough to actually pinch the nerve, that takes a long time to resolve. I knew when I was getting rid of the borrelia aggregates because I would get cloudy smelly urine and diarrhea. It's a very slow process getting all that material out, and takes a long time.
Posted 12/7/2024 6:09 PM (GMT -5)
Sounds like tendinitis to me (which isn’t so root cause I know). Look up some stretches for golfers and or tennis elbow (same idea different sides of the elbow).

If it is tendinitis this should help mitigate the issue. Make sure you’re stretching before any workouts too with the recommended ones for these issues. Certain tricep exercises can aggregate my “golfers elbow” especially if I don’t stretch.
Posted 12/8/2024 12:29 PM (GMT -5)

dcd2103 said...
I would look into TB4/TB500. .....

Hey DCD - good to hear from you!

Hope you are doing OK

thanks for that input - it had crossed my mind that it could be some kind of autoimmune phenomenon - as i have other auto-immune issues already ( hashimotos) - so that increases the chances of getting more - but obviously i hope its not.

it flaring during treatment would fit with that - but i have been treating with antibiotics in a pulsed fashion for over a year now - so that's also not really a definitive association - and it feels v different to the tightness in the other arm.

i have also been working out every day pretty hard with weights for a few months - so it could equally just be that i have irritated something - or injured it from not giving it sufficient recovery time in between workouts

oddly it seems to have moved around from where it first started which as definitely in line with my little finger and near my elbow - to now its definitely more in line with my thumb and more in my wrist - v odd and hard to explain

BTW - i find peptides interesting - and wouldn't rule them out for something specific like this

i do think they are unlikely to move the needle dramatically as a primary treatment for lyme etc - so if i have appeared negative about them - it's mainly on here in that context.

that said, i think some healthy caution is advisable for anything that comes out of the online gym-bro type space - which is where a lot of these growth/recovery type peptides seem to be gaining traction.

i know people in that world and notice that typically their standards for what they will put in their body and the weight they assign to any potential long term negative health impacts are rather different to mine.

i see peptides as something that have huge potential - they are after all some of the signalling molecules that our bodies already use to manage many essential processes - its still rather early in their development cycle - so there is a lot we dont know yet and, since there is rarely a free lunch in biology, some of those things we do not yet know are likely to be risks or downsides - so i think for most lymies a cautious approach is best.

thanks for the feedback on the positive results and safety of this one - i know you will have done your homework - so that's really helpful - i'll definitely look into TB4/T500 - and may tap you up for more info

keep up the good work!
Posted 12/8/2024 12:38 PM (GMT -5)

Quin said...
Seems like typical borrelia symptoms.

The aches and pains in my muscles or my elbow was just herxing from die off, but the pain in my fingers was often blood clots or a pinched nerve. If the borrelia has built up enough to actually pinch the nerve, that takes a long time to resolve. I knew when I was getting rid of the borrelia aggregates because I would get cloudy smelly urine and diarrhea. It's a very slow process getting all that material out, and takes a long time.

hi Quin - thanks for the input

yep - i get a lot of weird aches and pains - more when treating - and suspect either borrelia or bartonella die off during herxing are responsible

the general tight muscle tendon pain thing - defo gets stronger the more biofilm agents i add into the mix - but gradually resolves in the week off abx between pulses

this most recent arm thing seems different - more severe - and much longer lasting

the general aches and pains and odd injuries - cricked neck, tweaked shoulder type stuff seems to come at any time

i defo urinate more when herxing - but i've not really seen any dramatic cloudiness
Posted 12/8/2024 12:40 PM (GMT -5)

loski01 said...
Sounds like tendinitis to me (which isn’t so root cause I know). Look up some stretches for golfers and or tennis elbow (same idea different sides of the elbow).

If it is tendinitis this should help mitigate the issue. Make sure you’re stretching before any workouts too with the recommended ones for these issues. Certain tricep exercises can aggregate my “golfers elbow” especially if I don’t stretch.

thanks Loski - i agree some form of inflammation in the tendons - ie tendonitis - seems most likely

that's some practical input i can put into practice right away

appreciate it!
Posted 12/8/2024 1:09 PM (GMT -5)
I have a quick Temporary cure that lets you get on with your day most of the time , And you can do this right now.

Our bodies are so screwed up from all this stuff pinpointing the exact cause is merely going to be a guess.

My aches and pains gradually got better over the years. 10 years ago I was at an all-time low.

The peptides do sound interesting and I have not fried any of them yet. If I was still in complete pain, that’s what I would try. Because even if this is some sort of nerve issues caused from these infections, that will still take years to heal. Years and sometimes decades.

I posted myofascial release and trigger point release here in the past when I was more active many times. You can Google those and find YouTube instructions.

When muscles and tendons tighten up for whatever reason it does not necessarily mean, the tissue is damaged. It might be an incorrect nerve signal. Im perfect example of that.

Almost everybody knows what foam rolling is you don’t need one that’s 3 feet long 18 inches wide is good if it has knobs on it that are firmer that’s even better. A soft roller doesn’t do anything beneficial. But those just make you feel a little bit better With minimal effort

Using a lacrosse ball or golf ball requires more effort and technique and at least 15 seconds with pressure on that area till you actually feel the tissue release. Move around till you find the most painful area and it will release within a minute. This can be on the floor or against the wall with some sort of protective padding to not wreck your wall or door frame.

Post Edited (astroman) : 12/8/2024 1:12:29 PM (GMT-5)

Posted 12/8/2024 2:20 PM (GMT -5)
thanks for this Astroman

i will do a bit of experimentation with trigger point release

the most painful spot was right at the root of the muscle that pops up near your elbow when you tense your bicep - see area ringed in yellow in the image below

VIEW IMAGE

i did try some fairly aggressive deep tissue massage of that spot - which was painful but may have helped some

now its definitely more painful nearer my wrist and all along the top of my forearm - see area ringed in red - so seems to have moved / changed which is a bit odd

if its nerve related rather than muscle / tendon - will i do damage applying deep pressure to the spot ?
do you know?
Posted 12/8/2024 7:29 PM (GMT -5)
“does anyone have any ideas of:
1, what it might be
2, what to do to treat / resolve it - DMSO? solomon seal ? trigger point release ?”

My husband swears by DMSO.
Not just as a carrier - but itself
He hurt his lower leg at work
The Specialist said he would do surgery and “fillet it”
He didn’t like the sound of that.
He applied dmso on it every day (I don’t recall for how long)
He healed - no problems
Posted 12/8/2024 7:54 PM (GMT -5)
I experienced something similar in my shoulder earlier this year. It actually migrated from my left shoulder, across my neck into my right arm/elbow. Really disturbing. Had to be pathogenic. Very painful.

I changed up my primary abx from clarithromycin to minocycline, added dapsone ( I can only handle 25mg for 3 or 4 days and then need a break), added a bunch of antihistamines including clemastine, increased ivermectin, restarted roxithromycin and fenbendazole. I slept with a heating pad on my shoulder.

That was earlier this year, I think the dapsone may have been the best choice. It is completey gone now.

I really don't understand this.
Posted 12/8/2024 11:37 PM (GMT -5)
Garzie,
I’m experiencing something similar. I have been having pain, inflammation, and what I assume is tendonitis in my right elbow that seems to be from injury. It also feels like a pulled muscle on the top of my forearm down to my hand. It’s been going on for a year and a half now. In the past month or so, I have started getting fleeting nerve pains in the elbow if I move my arm a certain way. That’s concerning me.

This year, I have also started having what feels like a strained tendon in the back of my right heel at times and soreness in the back and bottom of the heel.

Girlie mentioned DMSO, and I have had that on my mind. I found Lapis’ old thread on DMSO last week but haven’t ordered any yet. I’m thinking DMSO by itself might not work without something else to drive in. I just don’t know what to use with it.

Ahh, I just read Girlie’s post. So the DMSO alone works, too. Maybe I’ll order some this week. What kind of paint brush do I need to buy?

Post Edited (WalkingbyFaith) : 12/8/2024 11:45:18 PM (GMT-5)

Posted 12/9/2024 3:42 AM (GMT -5)
We use a small paint brush.
Make sure the area you’re painting it on is clean.
Posted 12/9/2024 6:17 AM (GMT -5)

Girlie said...
“
My husband swears by DMSO.
Not just as a carrier - but itself ....

thanks Girlie - i am tempted to give it a go - as its topical should not interfere with anything else i am doing.
Posted 12/9/2024 6:22 AM (GMT -5)

WalkingbyFaith said...
Garzie,
I’m experiencing something similar.


Thanks WBF
its kind of reassuring to hear so many others are having the same kind of mysterious pains and strains that i am - even though they are concerning.

i think that because inflammation generally damages collagen - we are probably all more prone to these type of things

i can report back that stretching yesterday - basically arm out straight and folding palm down af far as possible with other hand - then up as far as possible- 30 seconds in each direction a couple of times does seem to have helped a little

i will continue that - and report back if / after have tried DMSO
Posted 12/9/2024 6:33 AM (GMT -5)

carlnpa said...


That was earlier this year, I think the dapsone may have been the best choice. It is completely gone now.
.

thanks for sharing that Carl - its appreciated

they certainly are strange and concerning -

the migrating pains thing is a hallmark symptom of lyme - in fact, one of the few symptoms with high diagnostic value

i think we kind of get used to the more minor ones or the ones that are at least relatively short lived - but when they seems to last months it's naturally more concerning -

good to hear it eventually resolved - that does seem to be the pattern of them with the vast majority

Dapsone is on my list to do shortly - as part of the Dr J persister protocol - gradually building my way up to it as like you i dont think i would have been able to cope right off the bat

i am past the half way point in recovery now in terms of what i can do most days - but still feel i need a push to get finally over the line

hope you are progressing also

all the best!
Posted 12/9/2024 8:50 AM (GMT -5)
For me, these are warning signs of an upcoming event related to my Lyme infection. Usually within a handful of days I experience full fledge malaise, along with a lot of neurological symptoms. I look at it as being a "gift". Time to cut back on inflammatory foods/agents, increase rest/sleep & prepare to increase my detox efforts.
Rob
Posted 12/9/2024 10:47 AM (GMT -5)
Garzie, if you dont want to try a peptide, which i understand, the two things which I found that actually do help my tendon inflammation are boswelia serrata and MSM. Both had a noticeable impact.

I tested many different compounds purported to lower this type of inflammation. Tart cherry extra, curcumin, CBD, etc. These were the two that helped.

Boswellia has the added benefit of being effective against gram negative bacteria.
Posted 12/9/2024 12:52 PM (GMT -5)

dcd2103 said...
Garzie, if you dont want to try a peptide, which i understand, the two things which I found that actually do help my tendon inflammation are boswelia serrata and MSM. Both had a noticeable impact.

I tested many different compounds purported to lower this type of inflammation. Tart cherry extra, curcumin, CBD, etc. These were the two that helped.

Boswellia has the added benefit of being effective against gram negative bacteria.

thanks for this DCD,

very helpful

actually i have been taking MSM daily for a good while now - about 2g twice a day dissolved in water on empty stomach.

ref the boswellia - do you just mean the frankincense resin / gum taken orally - or some other extract / supplement?
if there is a brand that seems to work for you that would be helpful.
i think i have some of the resin here already - having read so many good things about it
i remember chewing it like gum in the past

thanks again!

ps. i don't rule out peptides - but since there are high costs involved and likely some lead time - i am keen to see if i can resolve it with something a bit easier
Posted 12/9/2024 1:11 PM (GMT -5)
np garzie. This is the only brand i have experience with

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/b09h8mr1zm/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=utf8&psc=1
Posted 12/9/2024 1:19 PM (GMT -5)

dcd2103 said...
np garzie. This is the only brand i have experience with

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/b09h8mr1zm/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=utf8&psc=1


👌
Posted 12/9/2024 7:43 PM (GMT -5)

WalkingbyFaith said...
Garzie,
I’m experiencing something similar. I have been having pain, inflammation, and what I assume is tendonitis in my right elbow that seems to be from injury. It also feels like a pulled muscle on the top of my forearm down to my hand. It’s been going on for a year and a half now. In the past month or so, I have started getting fleeting nerve pains in the elbow if I move my arm a certain way. That’s concerning me.

This year, I have also started having what feels like a strained tendon in the back of my right heel at times and soreness in the back and bottom of the heel.

Girlie mentioned DMSO, and I have had that on my mind. I found Lapis’ old thread on DMSO last week but haven’t ordered any yet. I’m thinking DMSO by itself might not work without something else to drive in. I just don’t know what to use with it.

Ahh, I just read Girlie’s post. So the DMSO alone works, too. Maybe I’ll order some this week. What kind of paint brush do I need to buy?

It doesn’t really what type of paintbrush - my husband uses an artist’s paintbrush - not one you’d use to paint your house walls
Posted 12/11/2024 11:56 AM (GMT -5)
DMSO info:

Order the stuff on Amazon that has the palm tree on the little white plastic bottle. I think it’s four US ounces.

Yes, it works my itself. Or to drive in other stuff.

Apply with a cotton ball or a small natural horse hair Paint brush dipping into a glass shot glass. Do not use a synthetic poly or nylon brush as the DMSO might break it down /Dissolve it.
Posted 12/11/2024 12:01 PM (GMT -5)

Garzie said...
thanks for this Astroman

i will do a bit of experimentation with trigger point release

the most painful spot was right at the root of the muscle that pops up near your elbow when you tense your bicep - see area ringed in yellow in the image below



i did try some fairly aggressive deep tissue massage of that spot - which was painful but may have helped some

now its definitely more painful nearer my wrist and all along the top of my forearm - see area ringed in red - so seems to have moved / changed which is a bit odd

if its nerve related rather than muscle / tendon - will i do damage applying deep pressure to the spot ?
do you know?

Those are very typical areas. I’ve had /done extensive work on my forearms and no one ever hurt the nerves.

Keep in mind trigger point release and myo-fascial release are not massage. It is holding pressure for a certain amount of time while actually feeling the tissue release tension usually under one minute. (Massage will not be as effective or have as much lasting results until this is done first.)

As you move forward with trigger point release, the hard tender areas will become less and less. When you break down the hard muscle lumps then you will actually be able to stretch it. Can not stretch effectively without breaking down the hard muscle tissue lumps.

Post Edited (astroman) : 12/11/2024 12:53:22 PM (GMT-5)

Posted 12/12/2024 3:28 PM (GMT -5)
thanks Astroman

yep - i used the term massage - but i was actually trying to do exactly as you described - just using my finger or thumb to apply deep pressure to the exact spot

what are your thoughts about exercising with this - i can't quite workout if its making it worse or not ?
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