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Artemisinin/artemisia annua question regarding babesia

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Posted 12/12/2024 4:25 PM (GMT -5)
I haven’t been up to date on what the newest recommendation of the herb is for babesia. But it seemed like the consensus switched back and forth quite a bit over the last years but I had a few question the first one I was just wondering if Buhner still recommends the whole herb or does he recommend the extract derivative? Both? Is one more potent or effective than the other? The last thing I was wondering about is I know attemisinin is broken down by the stomach enzyme to where only 24% is absorbed or I think is still present in the blood stream. Was wondering if increasing the dosage could negate some of that affect?

Post Edited (KYLEb23) : 12/12/2024 8:51:42 PM (GMT-5)

Posted 12/13/2024 7:52 AM (GMT -5)
from what i recall - buhner was not in favour of artemisia for lyme - but thought it useful for babesia

i do not recall reading anything about stomach enzymes breaking it down significantly - but its well documented that the liver ramps up detoxification of artemisinin dramatically within the first week of taking it - so that blood levels drop to less than 20% of initial levels by day 7 or 8 - meaning that continuous dosing is not thought to be particularly useful or recommended.

buhner writes about this and as i recall says its its going to work it will work within 30 days or not at all.
he was in favour of using the whole herb alongside artemisinin as there were some studies indicating that other substances in the whole herb were able to slow down the livers ramp up in excretion of artemisinin and thereby help to maintain blood levels.

regarding strength / effectiveness - its very hard to say as the constituents in artemisia annua ( the plant which is known for its anti protozoan effects ) are fragile - easily oxidised and lost during processing - and in any case herbs and supplements are largely are not regulated - in terms of potency - so its very hard to say how much active ingredients are in any given product. for this reason i think buhner was in favour of mostly artemisinin - together with some whole herb to kind of hedge one's bets.

more recently there have been some studies showing artemisinin has some actions against lyme persister cells when used in combination with other antibiotics as an adjunct therapy ( not as a monotherapy).

i hope its of some help
Posted 12/14/2024 1:05 AM (GMT -5)
Yeah this actually helps a lot thanks I’ve been treating babesia with zith and malarone and it didn’t do much but I tried artemisinin not too long ago and felt immediately relief from anxiety and felt more energy. I only took it a couple of days because I read somewhere of it may be unsafe but the more I looked into it the safer it appears to be. I bought the whole herb artmeisia and have been taking it for a few days and seeing some improvements like being able to fall asleep at the times I used to because I get insomnia now and also it’s been helping the racing heart. Oddly enough I see cryptolepis mentioned as a good babesia herb but it didn’t do anything for me.
Posted 12/14/2024 7:48 AM (GMT -5)
i would just be cautious of long term use, because:

1, there are quite a few papers detailing neurotoxicity from artemisinin in animal studies
more info here https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/s0378427406001822

2, the main history of human clinical use has been short term dosing only - ie for malaria - and its generally not wise - or at least increases risks dramatically - if we put ourselves in a group outside this cohort - eg by long term use
Posted 12/14/2024 9:52 AM (GMT -5)
Does Buhner still recommend taking it for 30 continuous days? I’d be worried about that now if it is somewhat toxic
Posted 12/14/2024 10:20 AM (GMT -5)
Sadly he passed away from chronic lung disease.
Posted 12/14/2024 10:44 AM (GMT -5)
Do you know what the usual dosing is? Is it normally pulsed?
Posted 12/14/2024 10:47 AM (GMT -5)
Damn r.i.p
Posted 12/14/2024 12:38 PM (GMT -5)

KYLEb23 said...
Do you know what the usual dosing is? Is it normally pulsed?

Dr MR has some Babesia protocols including artemisinin on his website - here
https://www.treatlyme.net/guide/kills-babesia-a-brief-guide

in his protocol the doses are worked up from around 300mg a day to 1500mg a day - but its pulsed 3 days on 11 days off on a 14 day cycle

for info - i think there were some papers in recent years showing that babesia microti is more sensitive to artemisinins and generally easier to treat than other species of Babesia - eg Duncani, Divergens, Odocoilei
Posted 12/14/2024 1:12 PM (GMT -5)

Garzie said...
Sadly he passed away from chronic lung disease.

I've wondered about that. He blamed it on dust and chemicals from woodworking, but pulmonary fibrosis is often autoimmune, and I suspect that the infections played a role.
Posted 12/14/2024 1:15 PM (GMT -5)

Quin said...
I've wondered about that. He blamed it on dust and chemicals from woodworking, but pulmonary fibrosis is often autoimmune, and I suspect that the infections played a role.

yep, quite possible
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