FOR TRAVELER- Chronic Tonic

Randy, I found the same type of things happening with me. As I treated one infection, symptoms of others were getting more serious, or cropping up for the first time. My Bart symptoms got so bad that by the time I had been on the CT for 3 months, I was pushing to start the Bart treatment - which for me was just to start houttuynia.

By the time I had been treating Lyme for 9 months and Bart for 6 months, I started having serious Babs symptoms - up from the milder symptoms of Babesia that I had been experiencing.

It's the layer theory (lol) - as I treated and lowered the bacterial load of one infection, the next infection with the higher bacterial load in my body began to produce stronger symptoms.

It had nothing to do with permanent nerve damage for me, it was all about herxing and the layer theory.

Not such a bad idea - there's enough stress with just trying to navigate stores right now - no need to make yourself miserable so that you can't enjoy the holidays with your son!! We need to take it slow and easy anyway.

I hope that your Christmas is a low stress, easy going, happy event. :smile:

It was tachardia event I believe. F'n heart attack is what it felt like. Air hunger, rapid heartbeat chest discomfort and anxiety. Lasted for about 1.5hr ish.

I had massive issues with Lyme/Bart rage - so do be careful with that. I was fortunate to never be away from home when the really bad times hit at least. It was like what I used to see watching 'The Hulk' when I was a kid - I could feel something inside of me changing and felt an intense anger start, but there was absolutely no way to stop it from happening - so I learned to 'manage' it instead. I'd go outside and do something intensely physical. It would take splitting about a rick of firewood, or beating on trees for 30 minutes or even just digging up the ground in the garden. It had to be intensely physical, or it wouldn't help dissipate the anger.

Seems to me that I would get the rapid heart beat, sweating, air hunger some just before these episodes - is this how it played out for you as well? Just curious.

But, what would be a larger threat to the health of the person is severe herxing. Slow and steady is how I healed, and it worked well - as it has for many others. Once it's a long standing infection, there's no rush in treating hard or fast, as it becomes survival of the person and the preservation of organs. The bacteria is there, but not to stay, as the herbs will get to all of those places given the time to do so. It's not tip toeing around with treatments, it's not pushing the body to deal with more than it's equipped to deal with. Severe herxing can lead to a life threatening situation.

I"m so sorry, Randy!! I know how miserable this can be. Keep up the detoxing, and you may want to increase the amount of detoxing you are doing(??). Hang in there!!

So, are you saying that herbs should not be used to treat these infections, or herbs should not be used for treating Bart? I would have to disagree with that.

Yes, I did treat a long standing Bart infection with herbs only - and yes, I would treat TB with herbs - provided either I or the person treating me knew enough.

Not many people that don't use herbs understand the history of medicine - herbs have successfully treated and healed people for thousands of years - but pharma abx have only been used extensively since the 1940's.

And because you brought up TB - here are a couple of articles about using herbs for treating TB:

/www.researchgate.net/publication/274012759_Chinese_herbal_medicine_for_multidrug-resistant_tuberculosis_MDR-TB_a_systematic_review_of_randomised_clinical_trials

economictimes.indiatimes.com/magazines/panache/centuries-old-herbal-chinese-medicine-can-help-fight-tb-says-study/articleshow/56156320.cms

And here's a Chinese formula that has a patent for treating TB - and yes, it uses Houttuynia:
/www.google.com/patents/CN104435288A?cl=en

Okay, Blue. LOL! I wasn't sure what you were saying, so thank you for clarifying it.

My 'pioneering footsteps'? LOL! You make it sound 'brave' - believe me, I was scared, not brave!! LOL!

From what I've learned - in my own experience as well as researching/learning - it's best to not rush starting the herbs so that the person is herxing seriously. Titrating up carefully and slowly is usually the best way, particularly if the person is really sick or is not very stable. This will take a different amount of time for each person, depending on how well they are detoxing and supporting the body.

I do agree that Houttuynia is an important herb for many of us with Bartonella, but to start it too soon or with too high a dose will spell 'disaster' (serious herxing and may have to stop treatments to regroup). This can be very hard on the patient - physically and emotionally - which is why I always suggest slowly titrating up on doses and pacing oneself.

I know that you suggest throwing 'everything' at these infections - and to a point, I agree. I just think that it should be done in a slower manner - at least I think we differ on that. I think we should use whatever works for us, no matter what combination of therapies it takes.

While I do use tinctures for support, I bought whole herbs (all dehydrated/dried) and made decoctions for my treatment. Fresh herbs would have been wonderful, but the expense would have kept me from being able to use them, and I sure don't have the energy to grow them myself. Any time that I can though, I do use fresh herbs for tincturing and making other medicines.