Adrenals are ghostly, nothings straight forward with them.

Did get a adrenal saliva test?

I should get another one to compare with by base line of last year.

Do you ever do a adrenal BP test? Any free mini clinic can do this. BP laying then keep the cuff on and sit up. Points should not increase more than 10, if I remember -it can be goggled.

They get better very slow, any stress triggers them in adrenal fatigue.

There were threads on herbal adrenal adaptogens here.

Hylands homeopathic "nerve tonic" (walmart)works when you feel it starting, niacine does to a little, with facial flushing though.

I like this site the best for information on adrenals & Lyme:
lymemd.blogspot.com/2012/06/adrenal-fatigue.html

I have Addison's and take high dose natural adrenal meds along with a large dose of DHEA daily.

Cortisol is the main hormone, but DHEA is an important hormone to supplement with for Addison's according to my doc. The information on DHEA is all over the place though about it's safety and what it's helpful for from what I've seen.

I don't say this often, because I don't believe it's usually as accurate, but I've had nothing but blood tests - no saliva tests at all. My doc mainly went on my waking temperature readings for my thyroid, and my symptoms told her a lot. When I asked about using saliva, she told me that she knew how to read the blood tests (because she tests for a large range of things, not just adrenals or thyroid) to understand what all may be involved. Confused the heck out of me!! LOL! I wasn't expecting much from her to be honest because of this, but - low and behold! - she was the one to catch my hypothyroid & Addisons and intestinal food allergies - so I don't judge (much). Giggle!

IHL - low doses of cortisone are acceptable...and will not lower your immunity.
It's the higher doses of steroids that are often used in auto-immune diseases that will wreak havoc on your immune function.

No, you're not changed forever..don't worry, the "old" you will come back.

IHL- if you were truly at 0, you would be dead. The adrenals are that necessary to us - that's why low adrenals are so dangerous. I have Addison's - very low functioning adrenals and am in treatment for them.

Margaret, it's confusing for many to have 2 threads about the same thing going, would you mind just posting and following this thread?

The adrenals can swing back and forth (from high to low production of hormones) when they are failing, so depending on when you are tested, it could be high or low cortisol output.

Cortisol levels normally fluctuate throughout the day and night - they reach their highest levels at about 8 AM and reaches their lowest around 4 AM.

When the adrenals are putting out too many hormones, it's called Cushing's.

When the adrenals put out too few hormones, it's called Addison's - this is what I have.

Adrenal fatigue is what happens during long periods of stress - like we can have while having chronic Lyme. This is a condition not recognized by many doctors - they think that either they are functioning just fine or they are failing, so it's hard to get this diagnosed, but if you feel like you have adrenal fatigue, don't put it off. You really do need treatment to keep them from failing.

This page seems to have their information correct, although I have not gone through the whole site -oh, and I'm no expert on this!! LOL! :
www.adrenalfatigue.org/cortisol-adrenal-function

Cripes Girlie, now I'm confused, and I'm not sure. You might be right. I'm having a bad day today.

Ok, so here's the post I wrote in the other thread that I'm deleting:

Ok, so, does Lyme cause high cortisol or low cortisol?

I keep seeing all this confusing information out there on the internet, and even on the forum.

My LLMD ordered a saliva panel (which, of course, the Labcorp here doesn't do, so now I have to drive an hour and a half :( )

She kept saying she thought my adrenals were low, and that she thought she would have to give me low-dose cortisol.

However, I read on (Buhner's website, I think it was)? that Eleutherococcus was given for high cortisol. Yet everyone says to take Eleuthero for "adrenals."

So if you say, "Take such and such for 'adrenals,'" what do you mean? Low cortisol or high cortisol?

She seemed fine with rhodiola and phosphatidyl serine. So is it or isn't it ok to add Eleuthero?

Meanwhile, almost any supplement I take for adrenals (while I'm waiting to have the energy to drive to Hickory, not to mention waiting for the results) gives me migraines! Gaba and Ashwaganda def. give me migraines, and I don't know about Eleuthero.

She said low adrenals could be serious, which is why I added some of the other stuff.

Thanks in advance,

Margaret
HELLO!! :) :)

Margaret, 53, Lyme, relapsing remitting c. diff., complete thyroidectomy, remote breast cancer, Interstitial Cystitis, Babs, Bart, Fibromylagia, Immuneglobulin Deficiency, depression, asthma and allergies, migraines, myoclonous and remote seizures, orthostatic hypotension and dysautonomia

Medication, herbs, vitamins, probiotics.

Stay on your hydrocortisone unless you switch to natural meds for your adrenals - your fiance is right!!

OK , Heres my take on this.

Adrenals are like a sliding dimmer switch on a light. Its not always high (on) or low (off).

Lyme or co infections do not nessesarily make adrenal cortisol high or low. In some people yes, in others no. Its not always Addisons or Cushings.

It can be a combination depending on the time of day, so you can be a little high and low - that is what happens in adrenal fatigue which is NOT recognized by conventional MD's.

ONLY an adrenal saliva test will show this, as it shows levels AM, late AM, afternoon and night. Adrenal saliva test will also (usually) have the DHEA on it too - as they work together.

When it is said to "support " adrenals that is just that - no RX's involved. Its like trasining wheels on a kids bike. It supports "tipsyness", a crutch more or less till strength or endurance is gained.

Many people with adrenal fatigue are high in cortisol at one part of the day and low in another. So an RX might help part of this and be detrimental the other half of the day.

Enter adrenal fatigue support: The tricky part is that some adrenal adaptogens give you energy and some give you mellowness. For those both high and low, they need to experiment with what makes them energized and mellow. And they need to somewhat recognize what triggers it.

These suppliments are not very costly, thats good since you need to experiment with them. I take some that mellow in the AM, and give energy in the afternoon. Brain nuero chemistry support also is directly tied to this. You can support this too, with some amino acids and herbs.

When the support is in place that works for you, some burned is taken off the adrenals, and in time they work better. In the precence of infection, they will not be 100% till the infection is gone, thus continous support is needed till you are infection free.

A properly support adrenal function can be felt as to how you react to sudden stress and physical endurance. Like lyme treatment, it takes time.

And if the thyroid is toast, this must be treated accordingly, as the thyroid ans adrenal are both controled by the pituitary and work as a team. Proper thyroid testing is Free T3 levels and reverse T3 testing (RT3, forget about TSH its not a hormone , only a signal..

Reverse T3 is not uncommon in adrenal issues. A regular Md or even an endo is terible with thyroid, they are told to look at YSH and then prescribe synthroid which does not work for 50% of low thyroid. Natural thyroid with T3 is the answer for these people STTM site will explain this. Again, stay away from endos, cluless by training.

Been there, done that.

Margaret I don't think you confused me haha this whole thing does. Like I said, I'm just going to have to re read this tomorrow. I'm just not feeling like myself at all :(

I believe the SSTM site has a list of good thyroid treating Drs, and there not endos. Most endos are no good at optimal thyroid health.

If you have no thyroid your body is struggling to convert t4 to t3, since 75% of that is done in the throid gland that you no longer have.

Natural thyroid is prescription manufactured dessicated (dried pig thyroid gland) containing both T4 and T3. Pig T3 is a little higher than human, so it takes a little getting used to. readd the STTM website. That lady is a little pissed at thyroid Drs- just read past her emotion. The brands are Armour, Acella NP Thyroid ,and ERFA Thyroid from Canada. about $25 per month cash, with no RX coverage. Cheap.

I take holy basil capsules to mellow adrenals in the AM. If my boss is an a hole, I take two. Passion Flower also mellows. For real stress, I add with hylands nerve tonic (homeopathic). These are all less than $18 per bottle.

If your home and are mega stressed- valerian root can almost make you stoned and tired LOL- its what the synthetic RX valum was modeled after. I only used one capsule for sleep. 4 will floor me- not good.

Afternoons I take vit C and Eleuthero (Siberian Ginseng), if needed for energy.

And to many people surprise the amino acid tuarine in combination with caffine is an adrenal adaptogen, found in (dont be scared) RedBull energy drink. This is why red bull give most people a mellow focused energy- its the taurine. It had less caffeine that coffee, yes for real. The other energy drinks have more caffeine, thus make most people jittery- NOT good at all!

When you support adrenals you are really controlling nuero-physio energy levels with herbs ect so the adrenals dont have to. That is what they do, when they work right.

Its a band aid or crutch till they are strong again. I react less to sudden stress than before, still more improvement needed though.

Ashagonada herb mellows some- but makes me jittery. Google adrenal adapogens for the herbal list. I highly recomend holy basil to mellow. It lowers blood sugar too, because high adrenal cortisol increases blood sugar.

My endo (after 4 of them) was surprised in disbelief what the labs showed ( in a good direction)as a result of my natural supplementation. My endo works with me to some extent, I trained him somewhat. He knows I will treat myself if he doesnt work with me- I have done that to prove a point.

Also, I read that sometimes when you're adrenals are starting to fail...they will surge and work extra hard and put out too much cortisol...and then burn out....so you end up with low cortisol levels.

I think most of us have low levels...that results in fatigue.

At my first LLND appt., he offered me low dose cortisol, or natural supplements to support my adrenals. I was surprised that he offered the cortisol without testing. Because of that, I chose the natural herbs.

I am interested in getting my thyroid tested again...I always get F T3 and F T4...but never the reverse T3. There is a lab called ZT labs (I think that's the name)...where I had my estro, proges tested before...I'm thinking I will get my thyroid tests done, along with my cortsol. Maybe it's AZT labs. It's in the States...we don't have anything like that here in Canada. We're in the stone age still...lol

My husband had high TSH, so without even testing his T3 and T4, they decided he needed thyroid meds...and his is synthroid...it worked for about a month...but now not so much. I insisted he get the T3 and T4 done and he was in range...but I have been pushing him to get the med that has both the T3 and T4 together. I don't understand why the doctors have to be pushed for us to get the correct tests/meds, etc. Why do we have to be smarter, more educated then they are? jeez.

Great explanations, Astroman!