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Posted 9/17/2015 3:16 PM (GMT -5)
Didn't Mister Mike make his own tinctures?
Posted 9/17/2015 3:19 PM (GMT -5)
Yeah I think that's who it was. I was nervous to do it at first but now I realize that they don't know any more than I do about any of this. Just mix the ingredients and wait.
Posted 9/17/2015 6:17 PM (GMT -5)

DazedPete1 said...
I am also a huge fan of Buhner's protocol. It seems much more comprehensive to me, like he is covering all the bases when it comes to treating these infections. I also like how he doesn't personally profit from his own protocols. With Cowden, I know they're making a huge profit on their protocol and that really bothers me. The individual tincture bottles cost about $30 USD, which is absolutely crazy for 1 fluid ounce of liquid.

I am healing very quickly on Buhner's protocol alone after treating with abx for 2 years and getting nowhere. It really works.

That's really wonderful, DazedPete!! I'm so very glad you are making progress now!! It feels so good to know that you are healing!!!
Posted 9/17/2015 6:22 PM (GMT -5)

Alimom4 said...

Traveler said...
CD posted a pretty good breakdown in this thread on the costs of Cowden and Buhner:
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=3496508&g=3497404#m3497404

And I know that when I got reinfected last summer (2014), I spent about $280 for an approx. 8 month treatment of Lyme only with the Chronic Tonic - just to give you a comparison - and please remember, these are all in US dollar amounts.

Cowden kind of is 'all inclusive' but I've not heard from a lot of people that have had good success with it for much more than Lyme (sorry anyone that's using this protocol, just being honest with what I've read/seen) and Buhner's breaks it down to treating each infection with a core protocol and you add in other herbs to help deal with specific severe symptoms.

Maybe it would be best for you to see how hard it would be to get each of the protocols and what they require for you to get them to you before you make your decision on which one to start?


Thx for the link, Trav. I agree- CD did give great info there. Thx CD
I didn't realize Cowden didn't address co infections per se. I apparently (via clinical dx) have bartonella based on my severe physical neuro symptoms related to my weakness and mobility effects. . (Have no brain fog or fatigue issues). Buhner is going to get a thorough read-thru and I will put thought into all this some more today.

Let me be clear on this. It is claimed that Cowden's protocol treats the co-infections and may do so for some - but for many it doesn't. And that's why I recommend Buhner's so much of the time. It's broken down into each infection get's "specialized" treatment. Each protocol has a 'core' protocol for treating the infection itself, yet you can add a variety of other herbs that he suggests to deal with the symptoms. These are things that what I used didn't offer either - which is why I don't recommend it to lots of people. Buhner states a 75% recovery rate if you follow what he has written. I've not seen those kinds of claims often - but after dabbling in his herbal protocols like I do and talking with so many about them, I believe it.

None of the three herbal protocols that we have been talking about are "bad", it's just a matter of what's most likely to work. If the most likely doesn't work, then it's time to look around at the others in my opinion.
Posted 9/17/2015 6:30 PM (GMT -5)
And I too make my own meds/tinctures. It's amazingly easy, and it really reduces the cost of them. I also made medicinal teas daily for my Lyme and Bart treatments.
Posted 9/18/2015 7:30 AM (GMT -5)
DazedPete1...

The list of herbs on the Monteagle website is impressive....!!

Just to make sure I understand you....

The core protocol items Cat's Claw, Japanese Knotweed and Eleuthero ....you purchase the powder and mix with water.

Do you purchase an entire pound of each or more ?
Also... how is it dosed ? By the teaspoon ? ...I don't see a powdered dosage guide on the Buhner website.

As for the " whole" herbs (or are they the cut/sifted) herbs (crypto, sida, etc...)do you purchase an entire pound of those as well and do you need a scale when preparing your mason jars or is it by volume.

Post Edited (B777) : 9/18/2015 7:17:45 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 9/18/2015 7:52 AM (GMT -5)
I am really not able right now to make the herbal remedies, even with such great directions. I can barely stand-- I truly can't stand without support. Walking is just such a brutal effort- I use the walker and the fact that I drag myself is killing my poor shoulders/tendons. I get the basics done for my big family and all is well with them (Thank GOD for my partner/spouse), but adding creation of the remedies, no matter how excellent the directions, would put things over the top in my case. I am not tired or weak EXCEPT my legs and so I need to be careful what I expect from myself. As much as it pains me to say it, I can't do this right now.

I guess it's back to researching mode for this overwhelmed lyme-person.

Need to find a remedy, have been off Plaquenil (UGH) since Aug 13-- and all the abx since July 1. Still reeling and SO discouraged that this "LLMD" cut me loose the way he did on Monday. Oh well- "Onward we lurch!!" LOL it will be OKAY I just need to find and start a remedy. ** sigh** if you know me at all you know this is SO NOT the way I am-- I am a possibility thinker but making remedies is a no-go at this point in time for sure. :(
Posted 9/18/2015 7:58 AM (GMT -5)
B777, I sent you an email.
Posted 9/18/2015 8:01 AM (GMT -5)
Alimom4

I apologize for leading this discussion away from your original question. Preparing your own hebal tinctures from the onset would not be a good idea. I believe we were trying to get a realistic understanding of the long term cost associated with the Buhner protocol.
If you are interested in seeing if the protocol makes sense for you I would urge you to order the core items in their 1 oz. bottles and try them. For approx. $10 a piece you could get the 3 tinctures.
Posted 9/18/2015 8:13 AM (GMT -5)

B777 said...
Alimom4

I apologize for leading this discussion away from your original question. Preparing your own hebal tinctures from the onset would not be a good idea. I believe we were trying to get a realistic understanding of the long term cost associated with the Buhner protocol.
If you are interested in seeing if the protocol makes sense for you I would urge you to order the core items in their 1 oz. bottles and try them. For approx. $10 a piece you could get the 3 tinctures.

No need to apologize, it's OK. I understand we need to share all the info we can when it crops up in conversations. I am just having a hard time figuring things out as I have been pushed back to square one.
Thanks for the info- everyone here is good about sharing.. :-)
Posted 9/18/2015 8:16 AM (GMT -5)
For whatever it's worth, Buhner's dosages are based upon weight.

Also, he stresses the importance of listening to your body and the individual variations that will occur.

That said, some people are able to achieve freedom from symptoms with lower doses.

Without a doubt, you'd want to start with 1 drop of 1 herb and take that for 4-7 days to gauge response.

If you're able to handle whatever herxing might manifest, then add 1 drop of another herb....and so on.

To give you an example....

I've been titrating Buhner's Lyme and Babesia protocols since mid-July. I'm able to increase a bit more quickly now but, I only just started 10 drops of everything this morning. I plan on taking some liposomal glutatione soon because I'm a chicken with herxing (not that it's started yet but...;)

Also - to clarify for those interested in making their own prepartions: Buhner gives instructions for tinctures, infusions, decotions and capsules in his books.
Posted 9/18/2015 8:29 AM (GMT -5)
And what about an herbal tea that is made once a day? Would that be too much?

We don't want to overwhelm you, Alimom, but we do want to be sure that we have thought of all of the possibilities for you. We all know that you need more treatment.

Whatever you decide to do though, know that we are behind you and support you here!!
Posted 9/18/2015 8:45 AM (GMT -5)

Traveler said...
And what about an herbal tea that is made once a day? Would that be too much?

We don't want to overwhelm you, Alimom, but we do want to be sure that we have thought of all of the possibilities for you. We all know that you need more treatment.

Whatever you decide to do though, know that we are behind you and support you here!!

Hi Trav-- once a day herbal tea-- of course that would be fine- I have a child on a GF/CF diet, LOL, so I am always doing things for his special diet (I am GF too.) ;) I can handle that. it just that making tinctures and all related to that is just not possible to add to things right now. I am pretty much hitting my limits and have to learn when too much is just too much. very hard for someone like me to learn! LOL
PS-- checked into the chronic tonic as that seemed doable to start with but they don't ship to Canada...

Thanks for all your help... It is overwhelming to try to research all this and come up with a plan- not a simple premise at all. I am usually very skilled at this stuff-- advocating for a child with special needs and being a nurse has taught me those skills. it's a lot more confusing when it's being done for oneself and there are sooo many routes.
Thanks again everyone....
Posted 9/18/2015 9:01 AM (GMT -5)
What about Jernigan's protocols? Have you checked in to those? They have a couple of different choices of protocols that you can use. I don't remember the cost though, and their store site is under construction. Here is a link that you can check later, or they have a phone number you can call - or you can email them and ask! hansacenter.com/shop/

I'm sorry, I just want to see you get the meds you need/want. If nothing else, I can help you find companies to order the herbs from that are willing to ship to Canada.
Posted 9/18/2015 10:52 AM (GMT -5)

Traveler said...
What about Jernigan's protocols? Have you checked in to those? They have a couple of different choices of protocols that you can use. I don't remember the cost though, and their store site is under construction. Here is a link that you can check later, or they have a phone number you can call - or you can email them and ask! hansacenter.com/shop/

I'm sorry, I just want to see you get the meds you need/want. If nothing else, I can help you find companies to order the herbs from that are willing to ship to Canada.


Hi there :) Yes, I tried the Hansa Center's store but you're right, it was under construction the other day when I checked. Thnx for the link.
I am using Jernigan's Neuro Anti-tox at present from the other store. (dr. Sara J).

I will check out the info about the herbs, thanks. Are those for making a tea? I could probably handle that vs making tinctures right now... that's just too much for me in addition to what we're handling here right now...
Thanks!

Post Edited (Alimom4) : 9/18/2015 11:40:51 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 9/18/2015 11:58 AM (GMT -5)
Jernigans herbs are already in tincture form!!! No making it, only taking it. :-) There is a phone number you can call or you can email them. Or see if Dr. Sara has it!
Posted 9/18/2015 12:38 PM (GMT -5)

Traveler said...
Jernigans herbs are already in tincture form!!! No making it, only taking it. :-) There is a phone number you can call or you can email them. Or see if Dr. Sara has it!

Yes, I knew they were already in tincture form. :) **grin**
I was referring to something else you mentioned in the previous post, LOL.
Thanks- do you know if what Dr. David J uses for lyme is same/comparable to Dr. Sara J's? I remember the folks here saying (I THINK) that they were almost the same protocols, just a different order for one of the tinctures (smthg like that!). In any case I will go again and have a look at Dr. Sara's page.

Thanks for helping, I am just reading, researching and trying so hard to figure this out. :) Want to do the right thing of course. No one seems to be like me symptom-wise except Volyme. She and I correspond a little since she contacted me about that!

Maybe Jernigan's is a good move-- I am already on her Neuro- Antitox... going to go read more.

TY all so much...
Posted 9/18/2015 12:46 PM (GMT -5)
It's all hard to figure out, so don't feel bad. Keep on researching and asking questions!!

I think I remember reading that there was actually very little differences between the two Dr. J's protocols. I bet they would tell you all about it if you asked though!!

I wish you luck in deciding soon.
Posted 9/18/2015 2:19 PM (GMT -5)

Traveler said...
It's all hard to figure out, so don't feel bad. Keep on researching and asking questions!!

I think I remember reading that there was actually very little differences between the two Dr. J's protocols. I bet they would tell you all about it if you asked though!!

I wish you luck in deciding soon.


Thank You, that means a lot. :-)
Posted 9/18/2015 6:24 PM (GMT -5)
:-) Let us know how we can be of help!!
Posted 9/18/2015 6:54 PM (GMT -5)

Traveler said...
:-) Let us know how we can be of help!!


TY so much. Just having folks to run things by really helps.

I admit that I think I am going to lean toward smthg fairly well laid out and simple to begin, as anything beyond that is stressful and I have to balance cost with stress on our lives in terms of complexity.

For the first few months we may go with an established protocol ... I am doing some more investigating on those.

My spouse is beyond supportive. I know how lucky I am to have him.

TY all so much for putting up with me. We will have this figured out by Sunday.
Posted 9/18/2015 6:58 PM (GMT -5)
I sooo agree that it's amazing to be able to talk to those that have been through it or are currently going through the same things!! I wish there was a site like this for adrenal issues!! I'm driving myself nuts trying to figure out things!

And if you have it all figured out by Sunday, would you clue me in? turn LOL!! Just kidding. Hang in there!! You've got a lot on your plate and it's not easy balancing life with treatment costs and the toll it can take on us. Remember, stress is a killer, so if figuring this out is stressing you out, take a break. Ask some more questions - there's no penalty if you don't have it figured out by Sunday! smilewinkgrin
Posted 9/19/2015 10:40 AM (GMT -5)

Traveler said...
I sooo agree that it's amazing to be able to talk to those that have been through it or are currently going through the same things!! I wish there was a site like this for adrenal issues!! I'm driving myself nuts trying to figure out things!

And if you have it all figured out by Sunday, would you clue me in? turn LOL!! Just kidding. Hang in there!! You've got a lot on your plate and it's not easy balancing life with treatment costs and the toll it can take on us. Remember, stress is a killer, so if figuring this out is stressing you out, take a break. Ask some more questions - there's no penalty if you don't have it figured out by Sunday! smilewinkgrin

Thanks for the giggle Trav! LOL Yes, wouldn't it be nice to "figure it out by Sunday"?? A Freudian slip, perhaps, on my part.

I am really leaning toward the Jernigan protocol... there is a "special" on their site for the Lyme package. That would probably be a good fit for me and my family as far as the way it is all laid out for me... Might be a good place to START anyway since I no longer have an LLMD. :( UGH.
Keep ya all posted.
BIG thanks everyone for the help... I am still reading and learning and trying to make a good decision. And detoxing- Always detoxing! ROFL

All input always appreciated. ~ Ali
Posted 9/24/2015 4:07 PM (GMT -5)
Hey everyone. I'm on round 8 on the Restore herbal program from Vital Plan. I've probably had lyme for 15 years...bitten in 2000. Tested positive for 2 bands last December and went out to visit Dr. Rawls while he was still in his practice in January. My husband and I really didn't think that herbals could get me well, but decided to give the program 4 months and then would raid our retirement account to go to an llmd. Herxed badly the first 2 weeks, then had 3 really great days, then made good progress at month 3 and 4. Had 3 setbacks(2 additional tick bites and a muscle spasm episode that took me a month to recover from). Started feeling pretty good a month ago and then my dad passed away 2 weeks ago and had to take a trip across country for the funeral, etc)
Dr. Rawls healed from lyme using the Buhner protocol. The best things about Restore is that it's all inclusive with herbals and supplements, videos, eating plan, his book Suffered Long Enough and you have email/facebook support from Dr. Rawls and the Vital Plan Team.
Just wanted to let everyone know it's not a scam. I also do not work for or make any money from the company. You can look up the website or ask to join the Facebook group I created for those on the program or for those who want to know more about it.

Post Edited By Moderator (Mister Mike) : 9/25/2015 6:43:07 AM (GMT-6)

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