When in your journey did you begin to consider bio-films?

I read much of what I could find in this forum in relation to questions about bio-films. I was wondering, where in your process did those who decided to treat the bio-films begin to treat them. I am entering 7 months into the journey and am starting to consider this part of the journey. I know Buhner isn't a proponent of this - but I think I would eventually like to address this component. What did you find most effective. Thanks much and have a safe fourth all.

My doctor started me on Tinodazole for biofilms after 3 months of treatment. I starting my 8th month. I also take a serrapeptate/nattokinase at 3 am. I definitely feel my neuro symptoms increase after taking either. I also have been on NAC 900 each morning (for Bartonella) and I use xylitol sometimes. I've also used Biocidin, but its so strong, just two drops on the tongue and I get lots of symptoms.

I think its important to be feeling pretty good before attempting biofilm stuff. A lot of stuff gets released that you have to deal with and you don't really want an active infection happening at the same time...

When I can eat less than a couple hundred grams of fat a day (ketogenic diet, due to GI issues), that's when. XD

I still take some stuff now (enzymes, tea tree essential oil), but I feel like it's pointless, because.. supposedly, the films love their fats, which I'm providing a large amount of.

I'm of the opinion that it's a very important part of treatment. I mean, it makes sense. I hate to be in opposition of Buhner's lines of thinking, because the guy knows a lot, and has helped a lot, but some things leave me skeptical.

Biofilms, bugs not developing resistance to herbal medications, etc. I'm just not so sure.

When? Whenever you feel you're ready, I'd suppose.

Thank you NotQuiteAntonio - I feel like it is time, so going to flow with that. Thank you traveler. I will put that on my research list. Cistus tea and good sources!

I sort of started treating them from day 1 inadvertently as I treated using essential oils initially.

I had to detox a _lot_ and at the time I wasn't sure exactly what I was detoxing. Eventually I realized it was biofilm. I was eating a pretty high fat diet all this time so I think it is possible to make a lot of progress on biofilm while still eating fat. I'm now eating low fat to try to get rid of Protomyxzoa but most of my progress against biofilm was on a high fat diet. The areas of the body that got cleared seem to be cleared for good and I haven't herxed there since.

The thing is that I'm not completely sold on the idea that proteolytic enzymes are good at busting biofilm. I had been taking very high doses of Serrapeptase on an empty stomach daily since 2008 or so as it helped with inflammation. But this never triggered any kind of massive detoxing like the essential oils did.

Lyme MD also seems to think they wouldn't work to bust biofilms.

"Proteolytic enzymes have been widely touted as ‘biofilm-busters.” This has never made sense to me since biofilms do not contain protein. "

lymemd.blogspot.com/2014/11/biofilms-and-quorum-sensing.html

I still take them in the hopes they are busting something but I'm not totally sold. Other members seem to have used them to bust biofilm successfully (Jackie Moon), but it's not clear if she was using something else that might have actually been doing the job.

I started using Cistus tea a few days ago. The effect is immediately noticeable, it amps up a herx feeling from Alina in the couple of body areas that I believe I do have some biofilm left. But so far I haven't had to detox much so the jury is out.

Until I discover something else I think essential oils are the strongest agent out there for busting biofilm. They also are antimicrobial so they'll kill stuff as it exposed. I copy this products formulas:

www.supremenutritionproducts.com/BFB/

The other thing that has really helped me make progress against biofilm is Rife and ultrasound, I posted about it here: www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=3617637

Good luck!

My doctor just prescribed Boluoke. Haven't tried it yet.

cr3ativegirl said...
Project - interesting about essential oils. The Biocidin formula is bilberry, noni, milk thistle, echinacea, golden seal, shiitake, white willow, garlic, grapeseed react, black walnut, raspberry, fumitory, gentian, tea tree oil, galbanum oil, lavender, oregano oil...it's so strong (even just 2 drops on the tongue!)

I use biocidin 5 drops, 3x a day with no reaction. That just goes to show how different we all are.

cr3ativegirl said...
Wow! Are you on it for biofilms? Did you have to work up to that?

I actually started it as part of my Lyme/ co protocol. Yes, I did work up to it, but it really didn't take me that long. When I first started, I would mix it in a little bit of water. Once I got to 3 drops, I didn't need the water anymore. I will tell you though, when I first started it was extremely strong, but when I got to 2 drops it got a little better. By 3, I was a pro.

Take your time time and work up. Try the water. Just about an ounce.

Is there anyone who uses NAC?

The oils in those BFB-1 and BFB-2 seem basically like Thieves.

Rosemary, eucalyptus, thyme, a citrus oil (they're using.. tangerine though, I believe, which I haven't seen), clove, etc.

Then, oregano and Frankincense.

The black pepper's a new one to me.

Where do you source the pepper and tangerine from, project?

Thanks for the reminders about the Cistus as well, guys. I'd been using it, but wasn't sure if I wanted to order anymore, held off, then forgot.

Mister Mike / Antonio -

I combine a few drops of Rosemary, Black Pepper, Thyme, Lavender, German Chamomile, Geranium, Clove totaling around 20 drops in around 10 ml carrier of Jojoba oil. I've experimented with 50% DMSO 50% olive oil carrier too.

I guess the blend I use is sort of a combination of the two BFB formulas.

This is the black pepper I use:
/www.originalswissaromatics.com/proddetail.php?prod=%23166

I don't use the Tangerine oil because I've read that citrus oils can be photosensitizing.

The Geranium addition has some research backing it up:

"Geranium essential oil inhibits the growth of endodontic enterococcal species ...
and is effective against bacteria protected in biofilm at higher concentrations. In addition, bacteria do not develop resistance to essential oils."
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26703546

I also like the crazy blue color the German Chamomile contributes and it seems it has some anti-biofilm properties too:

"German chamomile according to Pourabbas et al. and Pujar and Makandar retard biofilm formation and thereby prevent gingival inflammation."
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3894093/

I would use them once a week a few hours before a Rife/ultrasound session. I started this around Dec and started having to detox like crazy. By March the sinus area seemed to be mostly cleared, well, at least I can breathe clearly now and haven't been able to trigger any further major detoxing. The application of the oils near where the biofilm is seems to help.

Mustard Seed said...

Krimpet said...
My doctor just prescribed Boluoke. Haven't tried it yet.

This stuff seems to be pretty highly touted. My LLMD uses it in her protocols.

I used it for a while. I decided to stop because it was just too expensive. I switched over to nattokinase.

I don't notice a difference in symptoms one way or another.

I was hoping someone else used this. Did you herx from it at all? I think I'm supposed to do it twice a day. I'm just a fraidy cat right now (lol).

I'll share my experience with biofilm busters I've used. I have methylation issues and herx very easily. I started with Wobenzyme and just 1 pill a day and gradually went up to 3. This went smoothly without much herxing. Then I started serapeptase. Definitely had herxing when first started. Eventually started taking nattokinase. After that I went to serapeptase/nattokinase combo. I was going away for a while for my daughter's dance competitions and stopped taking the combo. After a few weeks I started up again and Herxed horribly. It was way too strong. Now I'm back to Wobenzyme and will go the same route as before and slowly move up to stronger enzymes. Hope this helps...