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Sage Woman Herbs and Correct Dosing Info Needed on Tinctures

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Posted 10/1/2016 9:37 AM (GMT -5)
I am in week 5 of my Stephen Buhner Protocol. I use these tinctures and the first day I went to full 100% of the dose as I interpreted from his LATEST book, I have been SO dizzy I have trouble even sitting in this recliner. The dose typed on each bottle is drastically different than I read in his book and I wonder if I am overdoing it? I dismissed the typed instructions on each bottle, assuming they were just for people who took it daily for "better health" or something, and NOT for Lyme. Now I am not so sure?

I just wonder if anyone here uses them and if so, what diose YOU are using. I am doing the following:

Japanese Knotweed-4 FULL Droppers=1 teaspoon ea dose 3x per day
Cat's Claw-4 FULL Droppers=1 teaspoon ea dose 3x per day
Eleuthero-2 FULL droppers=1/2 teaspoon ea dose 2x per day
_______________________________________________________
OK-But the Bottles say:

Japanese Knotweed-1 FULL Droppers =1/4 teaspoon ea dose 2x per day
Cat's Claw-2 FULL Droppers =1/2 teaspoon ea dose 2x to 3x per day
Eleuthero-2 FULL droppers Japanese Knotweed-4 FULL Droppers full=1 teaspoon 3X per day

_______________________________________________________

So, BIG difference and haven't been "me" since I bumped up to what I THINK is "full dose".
I wonder which way I should do this protocol. I felt fine right up till I read the book then raised my dise and stopped what was on the bottles themselves. Am I taking too much? I NEED to get better since I have already lost full use of my legs and even if I never walk again, do not want to lose even more....
Thanks for any guidance,
Mike

Post Edited (lucynethel (OR Just Mike)) : 10/1/2016 9:42:33 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 10/1/2016 10:01 AM (GMT -5)
Mike, you raised your dose too quickly. I've tried to follow your posts to see how you would do after reading you "suddenly" went to full doses.

You should back down on those doses and increase your detoxing until you can reduce the herxing. Herxing is hard on the body, and our bodies are taking enough of a pounding as it is - and pushing your body too hard sure does not help us heal faster.

What dose were you at before you got so dizzy? You likely don't need to drop back to that dose, but close to it. Once you get the herxing under control is when you want to slowly increase your doses, one herb at a time, and keep the herxing under control.

This is not a "no pain, no gain" situation. We need to proceed gently.
Posted 10/1/2016 10:12 AM (GMT -5)
That is the problem. I raised so much so fast I don't honestly remember. I went from wherever it was thatt was OK to 3 droppers and when I was OK for just one DAY (I know, I know) I jumped up again to 4 droppers. Maybe cut back to the 3 droppers?

On another note I won't be using Sage again. Just got a snide email in response to my asking what the cost of powder forms were because sh had typos that made it unclear a week ago when telling me she had powder available. Instead of any answer 2 days later she just wrote that I need to call if I want any info and has been just way too arrogant for me....I am using Amazon, for better or worse and just ordered a pound of that oh so GREAT tasting Andrographis but it will take a week or 2 to get it. Will order the other herbs there as well and just hope for the best I guess? NO idea if they will be better or worse but are 1/2 price of Sage so at least there is that?

I already took another BIG dose of all this this morning but will back off at noon. REALLY feel sort of sick now and a nasty coating on my tongue that is GROSS! As Herman Muster would tell poor Lilly, I've really done it again haven't I?
Posted 10/1/2016 10:18 AM (GMT -5)
Are you using probiotics? If so, how many "units" in each dose and how many doses.are you taking,and when do you take them? Timing is important too.

I would say drop back to 2 dropper. Once things are under control, you will likely be able to raise your dose up again fairly quickly, but we don't want your sweet Lilly to walk in and find you in a heap on the floor. =)

I'm sorry for the unfortunate communication between you and Sage woman herbs, maybe they were having a bad day too???
Posted 10/1/2016 10:24 AM (GMT -5)

Traveler said...
Are you using probiotics? If so, how many "units" in each dose and how many doses.are you taking,and when do you take them? Timing is important too.

I would say drop back to 2 dropper. Once things are under control, you will likely be able to raise your dose up again fairly quickly, but we don't want your sweet Lilly to walk in and find you in a heap on the floor. =)

I'm sorry for the unfortunate communication between you and Sage woman herbs, maybe they were having a bad day too???

OK will do 2 drops for a bit then. On Sage, not sure since it happens on a frequent basis for me. Then did a seach of them online and Yelp is full of people being literally abused by them if what they say is actually true. I used them even with their shiping AND handling charges because my orders shipped both times, within 3-4 HOURS after I placed it, even on weekends. Can't get better service than that! So I felt it just might be worth that extra money for the service.
Posted 10/1/2016 10:30 AM (GMT -5)
Mike - I'm going to scold you. nono

Please listen to what Traveler said about going back to 2 droppers of each.
If that doesn't help, then go back to 1 1/2 droppers.


Also, what she mentioned about Probiotics. (your white tongue)
Posted 10/1/2016 10:38 AM (GMT -5)
Yeah well I wonder why such HUGE discrepancies in latest book VS labels on bottles? My God I am taking 4 FULL droppers of JK 3 times a day instead of the bottle instructions. THAT is a sort of big deal. And with me so hyper sensitive to any/all medication my whole life. I wish I knew it those labels are a misprint or the book or what? Crazy stuff.
Posted 10/1/2016 10:41 AM (GMT -5)
The amounts on the bottles are for the 'general' population. They aren't specifically for tick-borne infection treatment.

If you read other supplement labels...you'll find dosages quite low.
For instance: Vitamin C - label may read to take one daily.

I often take 2000 mg daily now.
Posted 10/1/2016 10:43 AM (GMT -5)
Well there's nothin "normal" bout ME.
Posted 10/1/2016 10:48 AM (GMT -5)
...and remember you may not need to get to the top dose.
Posted 10/1/2016 11:04 AM (GMT -5)
Hi guys,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but just like taking pharmaceuticals, the concentration of the medication/herb is the most important thing. In order to compare any unit of measure - teaspoons, droppers, what have you, we have to first ensure the concentration is the same.

For eg. When using eleuthero Buhner gives different amounts depending on if you are using the herb pharm brand or not because it's concentration is much higher than other brands.

In order to decide how much sage tincture herb you are taking, we first need to know the concentration to compare it to say woodland essence concentration.

Kind of like saying I take two tablets of doxy, but I must first know the quantity of med per tab.

Just my .02 worth lol

Try to take it slow, big Mike. I don't think you can fight lyme the same way you usually fight - in this case it's more of a marathon not a sprint. :)

Wishing you healthier and happier days!
Posted 10/1/2016 11:07 AM (GMT -5)

Traveler said...
Are you using probiotics? If so, how many "units" in each dose and how many doses.are you taking,and when do you take them? Timing is important too.

I would say drop back to 2 dropper. Once things are under control, you will likely be able to raise your dose up again fairly quickly, but we don't want your sweet Lilly to walk in and find you in a heap on the floor. =)

I'm sorry for the unfortunate communication between you and Sage woman herbs, maybe they were having a bad day too???

Sorry I forgot to answer-can NOT think anymore! NOT taking any probiotics before meds. When I do, all we have is some Activia yogurt that says probiotic by Dannon. I drank all her Keefir (spelling?) and maybe should get more? ANY suggestions and brand names, WHEN to take etc and I will print out for her to buy me today. I'll be god, HONEST :-)
Posted 10/1/2016 11:10 AM (GMT -5)
Lymemomster - That is why I like to use the brands that Buhner recommends. Are they all the same? No - we already learned that SWH and WE are different.
But - if we gauge our dose on herxing and improvement...then it's not going to be the same for everyone anyway...that's why we start low and slowly titrate up. I don't think it's necessary to know how each brand compares with the others. (Unless - maybe if you're switching brands...there may be an adjustment)
Everyone's dosage will be different.
Posted 10/1/2016 11:15 AM (GMT -5)

Lymiemomster said...
Hi guys,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but just like taking pharmaceuticals, the concentration of the medication/herb is the most important thing. In order to compare any unit of measure - teaspoons, droppers, what have you, we have to first ensure the concentration is the same.

For eg. When using eleuthero Buhner gives different amounts depending on if you are using the herb pharm brand or not because it's concentration is much higher than other brands.

In order to decide how much sage tincture herb you are taking, we first need to know the concentration to compare it to say woodland essence concentration.

Kind of like saying I take two tablets of doxy, but I must first know the quantity of med per tab.

Just my .02 worth lol

Try to take it slow, big Mike. I don't think you can fight lyme the same way you usually fight - in this case it's more of a marathon not a sprint. :)

Wishing you healthier and happier days!


You make the BET point with this and luckily for me, in this wondrous fog I am now dwelling in, did do that math. But as my old best buddy Eric Von Zipper used to say in all those Beach Blanket Bingo movies, "hey Boss, ya done gave yerself da finger again".....

And it took me hours just to go through every single pge to make SURE that math was correct I say embarrassed. Getting very VERY slow with this disease.
Posted 10/1/2016 11:18 AM (GMT -5)
Mike - make sure you read Girlie's response just above yours - it's important.
Posted 10/1/2016 1:23 PM (GMT -5)

Traveler said...
Are you using probiotics? If so, how many "units" in each dose and how many doses.are you taking,and when do you take them? Timing is important too.

I would say drop back to 2 dropper. Once things are under control, you will likely be able to raise your dose up again fairly quickly, but we don't want your sweet Lilly to walk in and find you in a heap on the floor. =)

I'm sorry for the unfortunate communication between you and Sage woman herbs, maybe they were having a bad day too???

guess Trish and I need clarification on what a "unit" is? In other words, is a unit 1 cup of yogurt or some such? Or is it listed on the yogurt? If I know before she shops today will stock up. And do I take it before or after eating?

Thanks anyone.
Posted 10/1/2016 1:42 PM (GMT -5)
How many probiotics is supplies should be on the package somewhere - but yogurt, no matter how good - wont' supply you with enough. You need to supplement with probiotics pills or kefir. I prefer kefir for a number of reasons - one is that I can't afford a probiotic that can supply that many healthy strains of probiotics as kefir does, two is because I make my own, I can flavor it anyway I like and can be sure that no other sugars are being used other than what I put in it.

But there are some really good probiotic pills out there too.
Posted 10/1/2016 2:43 PM (GMT -5)
Mike - I buy Kefir from our grocery store.
It's organic and sugar free.
It has 4 billion units per Tbsp.

I also take two different Probiotics in capsule form.
They are 10 billion per capsule.

Each day I take a few Tbsp of Kefir plus 4-6 capsules.
Posted 10/1/2016 3:00 PM (GMT -5)
Oh boy. Uh, maybe overdo this too? I dring a cup or MORE of Kefir my wife gets me. Didn't know that was it:-) I drink twice a day-Lifeway Brand. Is that enough, too much? Yikes. I get into trouble everywhere!

----Do I take my Kefir WITH food, with herbs, befor or after? I remember-timing is everything right:-)

Post Edited (lucynethel (OR Just Mike)) : 10/1/2016 2:23:24 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 10/1/2016 3:04 PM (GMT -5)
1 cup twice a day is too much. A healthy person can use as little as 1/4 cup a day while on abx. I generally use 1/2 cup a day when I'm taking another probiotic for some reason (treating psoriasis), and as much as 3/4 of a cup when I know my intestines are needing the extra help.

And do be sure that the yogurt or kefir isn't already sweetened - the extra sugar can cause other issues.

Using large amounts of probiotics can lead to SIBO - Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth - so we want to be careful.

Remember - All things in moderation.
Posted 10/1/2016 3:25 PM (GMT -5)
Wow, maybe she bought the wrong kind? It says the serving size is 1 cup?

Maybe I need to buy some "full race"

Take it with food or herbs?Kefir?
Posted 10/1/2016 3:35 PM (GMT -5)
I checked and guess she did get the wrong kind. This kefir is 8 ounce containers and each has 8 grams of sugar added for flavor. She has never found any as good as this much less better and this is from the Health food store! I will look online. Traveler-if you ever want to share any receipe for home made kefir trish has her apron at the ready.

I am not going to toss this and hopefully won't hurt me too bad.

The yogurt also has sugar. Each 4 ound packet has 15 grams sugar also.

Post Edited (lucynethel (OR Just Mike)) : 10/1/2016 2:39:40 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 10/1/2016 3:37 PM (GMT -5)
Kefir can be taken with food, but not with herbs. If they are taken with anything that "kills", it will kill off the good bacteria in the kefir as well. It should be taken 2 hours after any killing herbs to help replenish the intestines with good bacteria.

Lifeway kefir says it contains: 15 – 20 billion Colony Forming Units (CFU) of live and active kefir cultures per cup. lifewaykefir.com/faq/ *click on the question, what kinds of bacteria are in Lifeway kefir?

This is how it's figured, and you will want up to 100,000 units a day. So 2 cups would give you 30 - 40 billion units, not the 100 thousand we are aiming for. Healthy people don't have the same risks we do, and of course, they wish to sell as much as possible!!
Posted 10/1/2016 3:53 PM (GMT -5)
Mike - next time your wife is in the grocery store - have her check out the dairy section.
That is where I buy my sugar free , organic Kefir.

It's called Liberte.

There's another brand, too - again it's organic and sugar free. I can't remember the name!
Posted 10/1/2016 3:57 PM (GMT -5)
Thanks Girlie. Yeah BOTH times this IS where she got ours as well and was the "best" of the bunch. So NOW need to look online for a bigger store I guess? We are a big town sadly so someones got to have the stuff. Will check Amazon for pills too but if too expensive for Traveler, no way I could afford em.
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