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Lyme Protocol to Kill Persisters, Round-Body and Cell-Wall Forms

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Posted 10/15/2016 5:30 PM (GMT -5)
This is not about detoxing; I will not be posting a full detox protocol but I assure you that detoxing is of the utmost importance when trying to attack all forms of B. Burgdorferi. A three antibiotic combo, consisting of a Cell wall inhibitor, anti-persister and inter-cellular antibiotic seems to work best.

journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0117207#pone-0117207-t002

Anti-persister; depolarizing lipopeptide antibiotic

IV Daptomycin - Kills persisters, Cysts, Disrupts Bio-films
________________________________________

3rd or 2nd Generation Cephalosporins (cell-wall inhibitor)

IV Cefoperazone - Hard to find; discontinued; minimal side effects

IV Rocephin

Oral Ceftin - Works to a lesser degree

All are able to kill spirochete forms; IV Cefoperazone, IV Rocephin w/ Daptomycin can kill persisters from regrowing after cessation of antibiotics; Ceftin can not. Heparin should be used.
_______________________________________

Inter-cellular antibiotic

Doxycyline
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Herbs

Teasal Root Extract; brings infection back into serum; inhibits growth of B. Burgdorferi in vitro.

Monolaurin - Can kill all forms of B. Burgdorferi in vitro.

Baicalin; found in Skullcap plant
-inhibitor of TLR2; Potent killing ability against B. Burgdorferi in vitro.

Naringenin/Hesperidin and/or Grapefruits; both flavanones are found in plasma and tissue after digestion.

_________________________________________

Curcumin inhibits TLR2/4-NF-κB signaling pathway, works synergistically with antibiotics.
B-complex
Magnesium
Zinc for immunity
Probiotics
ALA/ IV glutothione if inflammation becomes too great

Post Edited (birthdaysuit) : 10/15/2016 4:33:24 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 10/15/2016 5:32 PM (GMT -5)
If you aren't getting better, it's because you are not addressing the auto-immunity as well as all forms of B. Burgdorferi and in many cases co-infections. Although this post doesn't apply to patients with co-infections, which is most people here.
Posted 10/15/2016 5:35 PM (GMT -5)
...and how do you address autoimmunity?
Posted 10/15/2016 5:56 PM (GMT -5)

dbwilco said...
...and how do you address autoimmunity?

First you have to address if its an autoimmune problem, an autoimmune problem with an infection or an infection causing an autoimmune problem. From all the research I've read, where antibiotics alone are not able to fully kill B.burgdorferi, if you have symptoms and tested positive it is likely the infection causing the autoimmune problem. So administering steroidal drugs like predisone for things like RA would be counterproductive and could worsen symptoms. There are specific antibiotic combos that kill persisters but they have yet to be approved for Lyme usage and only have been tested in vitro.

I mention TLR2 inhibitors because they work well for post sepsis syndrome and Borrelia has a TLR2/1-agonist antigen (OspA), which CAUSES immune suppression, so again immune suppressant drugs would be counterproductive. What Borrelia does is switch off TH1 response, suppress immune system, and decrease immunoglobulins in late chronic infection. Stem cells and IVIG might work after antibiotic protocol to strengthen immune system.

Also with a suppressed immune system, older infections can be reactivated. I believe there needs to be a balance between putting the infection into remission, whilst modulating the immune system with herbs and supplements and possibly IVIG.

"spirochete can pinch off bits of its membrane in order to release its surface proteins. Explains Barbour: "It's like a bacterial Star Wars defense program," in which released surface proteins might intercept incoming host antibodies, keeping the spirochete safe from immunological attack.”

Now there is some research in regards to an autoimmune response due to a hypersensitivity to the blebs but in many cases an infection is still present. There's been a lady who took IV rocephin for 7 years and they cultured B. Burgdorferi from her joint fluid. It's hard to fully kill or even lessen the spirochete load in the body so that herbs and the immune system can inhibit its growth. Again, that's why anti-persister antibiotics are important.
Posted 10/15/2016 6:07 PM (GMT -5)
LDI is supposed to regulate your immune system.


Some people are getting good results with it.

I'm sure you realize that the list isn't a 'complete' list of antibiotics or herbs to use for lyme treatment, but a few examples.

...and most people don't need IV abx.
Posted 10/15/2016 6:56 PM (GMT -5)
Girlie-Those abx's have been identified to treat persistor bacteria.

I know a lot of LLMD's are following the research being done at Northwestern. Their research has shown that IV Rocephin every 5th day is very effective against persistor's. I've been on that treatment for 8 weeks now and I do believe it's working. There are other people at my doctor's who are on the same Mon, Fri, Weds schedule that also feel it's helping quite a bit.
Posted 10/15/2016 7:05 PM (GMT -5)

jrpsf said...
Girlie-Those abx's have been identified to treat persistor bacteria.

I know a lot of LLMD's are following the research being done at Northwestern. Their research has shown that IV Rocephin every 5th day is very effective against persistor's. I've been on that treatment for 8 weeks now and I do believe it's working. There are other people at my doctor's who are on the same Mon, Fri, Weds schedule that also feel it's helping quite a bit.

okay, thanks jrpsf....I do see that now...re-read the post.... blush
Posted 10/15/2016 7:07 PM (GMT -5)
Didn't one of the LLMDs (Horowitz?) talk about getting some success with Dapsone (taken orally)...or was he talking about IV?
Posted 10/15/2016 7:08 PM (GMT -5)

jrpsf said...
Girlie-Those abx's have been identified to treat persistor bacteria.

I know a lot of LLMD's are following the research being done at Northwestern. Their research has shown that IV Rocephin every 5th day is very effective against persistor's. I've been on that treatment for 8 weeks now and I do believe it's working. There are other people at my doctor's who are on the same Mon, Fri, Weds schedule that also feel it's helping quite a bit.

jrpsf - so is this done after lyme and suspected co-infections have already been treated?

Please keep us posted...how you do on this...hopefully it is a breakthrough.
Posted 10/15/2016 7:50 PM (GMT -5)

jrpsf said...
Girlie-Those abx's have been identified to treat persistor bacteria.

I know a lot of LLMD's are following the research being done at Northwestern. Their research has shown that IV Rocephin every 5th day is very effective against persistor's. I've been on that treatment for 8 weeks now and I do believe it's working. There are other people at my doctor's who are on the same Mon, Fri, Weds schedule that also feel it's helping quite a bit.

Interesting, I'm also on IV rocephin but taking 2g every day. Pulse therapy seems to work better though. And Dapsone, I know gives tremendous herxes, but I have never read any studies about it, can't find any.
Posted 10/15/2016 7:51 PM (GMT -5)
Jrpsf its Northeastern not northwestern. Hehehe.
Posted 10/15/2016 7:59 PM (GMT -5)
Thanks Jenny. Appreciate you correcting that. It's been one of those days.
Posted 10/15/2016 8:00 PM (GMT -5)

birthdaysuit said...

jrpsf said...
Girlie-Those abx's have been identified to treat persistor bacteria.

I know a lot of LLMD's are following the research being done at Northwestern. Their research has shown that IV Rocephin every 5th day is very effective against persistor's. I've been on that treatment for 8 weeks now and I do believe it's working. There are other people at my doctor's who are on the same Mon, Fri, Weds schedule that also feel it's helping quite a bit.

Interesting, I'm also on IV rocephin but taking 2g every day. Pulse therapy seems to work better though. And Dapsone, I know gives tremendous herxes, but I have never read any studies about it, can't find any.

Have you read this one:
www.omicsonline.org/open-access/the-use-of-dapsone-as-a-novel-persister-drug-in-the-treatment-of-chroniclyme-diseasepost-treatment-lyme-disease-syndrome-2155-9554-1000345.pdf
Posted 10/15/2016 8:02 PM (GMT -5)
Girlie-I'm still treating Bart but this seems to be helping. You and I have been treating about the same amount of time. Anything that helps make noticeable improvement and doesn't cost an arm and a leg is a big positive in my book. I'll keep you updated.
Posted 10/15/2016 8:09 PM (GMT -5)
What is your protocol jrpsf? Besides the IV Roc every 5 days.
Posted 10/15/2016 8:17 PM (GMT -5)

jrpsf said...
Girlie-I'm still treating Bart but this seems to be helping. You and I have been treating about the same amount of time. Anything that helps make noticeable improvement and doesn't cost an arm and a leg is a big positive in my book. I'll keep you updated.

thanks, jrpsf - but I doubt if I could get IV antibiotics. (BC, Canada) - treating Dr's are ND's not sure if they can prescribe the iv antibiotics...but I guess it wouldn't hurt to ask if it comes to that.
Posted 10/16/2016 12:31 AM (GMT -5)
No prob jrp i just remembered cause i have family at that uni and considered applying so the name differences stuck
Posted 10/16/2016 1:10 AM (GMT -5)

k07 said...

birthdaysuit said...

jrpsf said...
Girlie-Those abx's have been identified to treat persistor bacteria.

I know a lot of LLMD's are following the research being done at Northwestern. Their research has shown that IV Rocephin every 5th day is very effective against persistor's. I've been on that treatment for 8 weeks now and I do believe it's working. There are other people at my doctor's who are on the same Mon, Fri, Weds schedule that also feel it's helping quite a bit.

Interesting, I'm also on IV rocephin but taking 2g every day. Pulse therapy seems to work better though. And Dapsone, I know gives tremendous herxes, but I have never read any studies about it, can't find any.

Have you read this one:
www.omicsonline.org/open-access/the-use-of-dapsone-as-a-novel-persister-drug-in-the-treatment-of-chroniclyme-diseasepost-treatment-lyme-disease-syndrome-2155-9554-1000345.pdf

I have not. The exclusion criteria is very random and I guess it's kind of a cohort observational study so there are lots of variables here. Plus, patients were taking other antibiotics. Patients did get better symptoms wise, and there's definitely evidence to conduct more studies with Dapsone. I just want to see what it does on a microscopy scale to B. Burgdorferi in vitro ad vivo. I have no idea how it would be done in vivo though.

Post Edited (birthdaysuit) : 10/16/2016 12:14:15 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 10/16/2016 1:15 AM (GMT -5)

Girlie said...

jrpsf said...
Girlie-Those abx's have been identified to treat persistor bacteria.

I know a lot of LLMD's are following the research being done at Northwestern. Their research has shown that IV Rocephin every 5th day is very effective against persistor's. I've been on that treatment for 8 weeks now and I do believe it's working. There are other people at my doctor's who are on the same Mon, Fri, Weds schedule that also feel it's helping quite a bit.

jrpsf - so is this done after lyme and suspected co-infections have already been treated?

Please keep us posted...how you do on this...hopefully it is a breakthrough.

Does Canada still not believe in Lyme disease? In CT and RI, Lyme patients are protected and in many cases can get IV antibiotics for disseminated Lyme. Not sure how it is over in BC.
Posted 10/16/2016 1:04 PM (GMT -5)
I am doing the iv roceph with zith pulsed for 2 to 3 days , every week now on 5month ..with herbs ...iv curcumin has helped the autoimmune part ..i got some oral dap but itbis very close to a sulfa drug so im a bit scared ...the bee venom seems to keep them out of my blood too..via microscope ,i am going to try more teasel to lure them out of joints ....

also noting the difference between daptomycin and dapsone which horowitz likes ...i only catch the dap part ..have not tried either ...also curious how alinia fairs in the game ...isnit carcinigenic like metro or tini?

Post Edited (bluelyme) : 10/16/2016 12:07:02 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 10/16/2016 4:21 PM (GMT -5)

birthdaysuit said...

Girlie said...

jrpsf said...
Girlie-Those abx's have been identified to treat persistor bacteria.

I know a lot of LLMD's are following the research being done at Northwestern. Their research has shown that IV Rocephin every 5th day is very effective against persistor's. I've been on that treatment for 8 weeks now and I do believe it's working. There are other people at my doctor's who are on the same Mon, Fri, Weds schedule that also feel it's helping quite a bit.

jrpsf - so is this done after lyme and suspected co-infections have already been treated?

Please keep us posted...how you do on this...hopefully it is a breakthrough.

Does Canada still not believe in Lyme disease? In CT and RI, Lyme patients are protected and in many cases can get IV antibiotics for disseminated Lyme. Not sure how it is over in BC.


MD's can not prescribe long-term antibiotics for treating Lyme. But, here in my Province of BC, ND's can be licensed to prescribe them...so they are the Dr.'s who have taken on the Lyme Disease challenge.

I have to say that a lot of the Dr's I have seen have been supportive of my diagnosis. My regular GP has been open-minded...and has supported me with liver and kidney function tests - on a monthly basis because I'm on long-term antibiotics. If she didn't and the treating ND wanted me to get them done, I'd be paying for each test. Instead, because my GP has requested them...they are free.

The neurologist and neurosurgeon I saw - both accepted the diagnosis...but didn't know anything about LD.

I think I have been lucky though....I don't think most MD's would be as supportive as my GP
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