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Posted 10/18/2016 5:55 PM (GMT -5)
Quick backstory: I know I picked up Lyme for the first time in early August. I was diagnosed and began treatment within weeks of the exposure. My symptoms were never terrible and I've always been functional - working and taking care of 4 little children. However, my symptoms were more of a nuisance - extra tired, achy fingers and hands and other aches that come and go, but all very subtle. If I wasn't paranoid about the Lyme disease, I probably wouldn't think any of it.

Anyhow, I'm still not 100% symptom free and I've been on different antibiotics for over 2 months now. I do feel better overall but just not 100%. I don't know if this is post-lyme syndrome or if it's a co-infection.

At times, I've symptoms that sound more like Bart than Lyme. Specifically, I had swollen lymph nodes twice. First time, resolved in a week, second time is now and it's still new. I had two nights were I literally felt heat emanating from my arms, but could've been a herx because it was earlier during treatment. There was a day or two period where I felt burning soles which I've read are pretty tell-tale Bartonella, but it resolved.

At this point, I would say my ongoing Lyme symptom is that my hands and fingers ache still and if anything the pain feels deeper and more arthritic which could totally be lyme.

Part of me wants to ask my LLMD to prescribe something for Bart or other co-infection just to ease my mind, but I've always had elevated liver enzymes and I'm concerned that after months and months of antibiotics for Lyme adding a heavier Bart atb might do more damage than good and harm my liver, especially when I'm totally functional.

I just don't know how aggressive to be without knowing.
Posted 10/18/2016 6:27 PM (GMT -5)
I know i have so much liver intrest in the liver bank however bart loves to live there...it can regenerate ...and milk thistle coats it and its not as good as treatment ...

i have used dna connexions to get a id on coinfections ...i and a guy from university has id a apicomplexian he called toxo but i see it as proto ..never the less bart is giving me as much trouble as borrielia ...i started bvt because the weight of risk vs benefit ...my heart and nerves are at risk ..**** my liver ...i got a port ...doing iv abx

so ya i like my gall bladder .im on actigal while on rocephin but isnit enough is it too much not enough...the chinese doc is oh your poor gut ..llmd is like you need roceph every day plus orals ...i am a little collumn a and a lot of bee venom ...

risk v benifit. . I have a 4 yo and dad with cancer , death is not a option
Posted 10/18/2016 6:33 PM (GMT -5)
http://www.dnaconnexions.com/

also post lyme is bs ...how long were youninfected ?

Were you treated by a llmd ?
Lyme never travels alone ..
that ache happened in my bones after iv silver i thinks its bart ...some treat 6 month to 18 for that ...

Just saying ..were you treated with multiple abx for the 2 months ?

Lyme has a life cycle of 21 days and many more peptides that strep
burrascano says 6 weeks for new infections ...dont end up chronic if you can help it ...do iv 1 month rather than years of fumbling ..please best of luck
Posted 10/18/2016 6:41 PM (GMT -5)
Hi lymebug -

A few ideas to think about:

- 2 months is on the very (very) short end of a treatment process. Most people require longer treatment, even with manageable symptoms. So ongoing symptoms may or may not be associated with coinfections.

- with a bite, coinfections are more likely than not. Think about the origin of the infections... most ticks are infected by field mice. Imagine all of the pathogens in wild mice. The likelihood that you've been infected with only lyme is pretty slim, IMO.

- determining which coinfections you might have can be challenging. This questionnaire is very helpful - fill it out and talk w/ your LLMD about it:
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=3033860

- regarding Bart - I've read that the majority of US population has some form of bart due to how common it is in household pets (cats). So your suspicion about bart is not far-fetched.

- please be sure you are on something that supports liver function (milk thistle seed, burdock root) maybe even take a break from treatment and do a liver cleanse...

- I would consider staying on the lyme abx awhile longer and incorporate antimicrobial herbal tinctures for lyme (to provide broader coverage). There are a few good ones to choose from. I would also incorporate an L-form buster like samento or banderol - the spirochetes have had time to shift forms since you were initially infected.

- Your herxing might increase on the herbs - so you might want to prepare by increasing your detox.

- Once you have achieved a more comprehensive lyme protocol (adding in herbs, increasing detox) then I would also "test" a response to bart with an antimicrobial tincture that is geared toward bart (there are a few to choose from). This is a gentler way of testing if you also have bart and it's a good way to treat it without knowing 100% if you have bart, and to treat it without overwhelming your liver, as well.

- alternatively, I have had achey fingers since I started treatment, which I always attributed to Lyme & co... and that may still be a good assumption. However, once I eliminated lingering yeast/fungal issues my fingers also stopped aching. Symptoms from y/f overgrowth overlaps so many Lyme & co symptoms that it's mind-boggling... and most people who are on the level of abx that we are also end up with y/f overgrowth. So that is something to investigate. Here is more info:
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=1606610&g=3644275#m3644275

Hope this is helpful -

-p

Post Edited (Pirouette) : 10/18/2016 5:44:27 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 10/18/2016 9:16 PM (GMT -5)
Bluelyme:

I was exposed to tick(s) on August 6-12. I was diagnosed and began treatment August 25th or so.

At first I was treated by my PCP who put me on 3 weeks of doxy. Then I was switched over to another 3 weeks of amoxicillin because I was nursing a bit and I didn't want to risk teeth staining longer than the 3 week minimum.

However, I was not feeling all that much better so I sought out an LLMD. He then switched me over to 2 months of cefitin (250mg 2x day) and Azithromycin (2 x day) for two months. He said if I don't feel better by the end of to the antibiotic course, he would need to do more of a work-up and possible testing for co-infections.

I am a month into the cefitin and Azithromycin and I am feeling mostly better, but I still feel the achy fingers and it kind of feels like a deeper ache now. I also just had a swollen lymph node pop up.
Posted 10/18/2016 9:24 PM (GMT -5)
Pirouette

Thanks for the super helpful response. I've actually wondered why Bart associated with Lyme is so difficult to treat, but then many of the medical texts information out there acts like Bart can resolve on its own in the average population. Seems like two totally different stances?

Going to look into milk thistle and tinctures. Thanks!

Pirouette said...
Hi lymebug -

A few ideas to think about:


- regarding Bart - I've read that the majority of US population has some form of bart due to how common it is in household pets (cats). So your suspicion about bart is not far-fetched.

- please be sure you are on something that supports liver function (milk thistle seed, burdock root) maybe even take a break from treatment and do a liver cleanse...

- I would consider staying on the lyme abx awhile longer and incorporate antimicrobial herbal tinctures for lyme (to provide broader coverage). There are a few good ones to choose from. I would also incorporate an L-form buster like samento or banderol - the spirochetes have had time to shift forms since you were initially infected.

- Your herxing might increase on the herbs - so you might want to prepare by increasing your detox.

- Once you have achieved a more comprehensive lyme protocol (adding in herbs, increasing detox) then I would also "test" a response to bart with an antimicrobial tincture that is geared toward bart (there are a few to choose from). This is a gentler way of testing if you also have bart and it's a good way to treat it without knowing 100% if you have bart, and to treat it without overwhelming your liver, as well.


Hope this is helpful -

-p

Posted 10/19/2016 1:08 AM (GMT -5)
Red root may help lymph move ...bart is a doozy...one guy on lymenet said he got it with plasma rife and cumanda ......the dna connexion test is good
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