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Posted 12/8/2016 5:06 PM (GMT -5)
I know people are discussing if Lyme and co. are transmitted sexually, but what about through saliva?
Many people have calculus/plaque in their mouth that naturally has bacteria, some of them being spirochetes. Those are not Lyme bacteria though. Plus Syphilis bacteria, similar to Borrelia, is not transmitted via saliva. I feel like if Lyme was transmitted through saliva then majority of people would have it, as something like herpes virus, which roughly 80%+ people have. And that is not really the case with Lyme Disease.
Posted 12/8/2016 5:15 PM (GMT -5)
I think it is not transmitted through saliva, like HIV - it is not transmitted through saliva.
Posted 12/8/2016 5:24 PM (GMT -5)
I hypothesize about saliva as well. I don't know enough about what makes some pathogens transmittable by saliva (or any route) but not others. I'm going to do some research on that just out of curiosity.

However, I do think there's a contagious element to borrelia than just sexual transmission (and even that hasn't been 100% scientifically proven, though there is legit evidence of it being so).

There's just too many anecdotal evidence of whole groups (3+ people) getting sick with lymie symptoms in tight quarters, that doesn't necessarily explain the likelihood of a vector(s) traveling around to infect everyone.

It just doesn't add up.

Another hypothesis is one person has borrelia AND co-infections. Some of the co-infections are pretty contagious. So the other people may pick up some of the co-infections.

This could explain why, when a group of people get sick with lymie symptoms, the severity differs greatly. One person is sick like a dog, while the others are not quite as sick and recover faster.

Once again these are all hypothesis and not scientific theories.
Posted 12/8/2016 5:36 PM (GMT -5)
We have some personal accounts on here that aren't sure their mate didn't get it through saliva...by kissing or by the infected person tasting food while it was being prepared.


The problem lies in the fact that as multifacetedme brought up in another thread, this can only be tested for sure with humans, and who, that is not infected, would be willing to subject themselves to provide research data?

I think we have to go by anecdotal evidence until empirical evidence is available and trustworthy.
Posted 12/8/2016 5:47 PM (GMT -5)
The lyme spirochete has been found live in saliva. I don't know of a science study that proves it is transferred by saliva, but I do believe in the veracity of "anecdotal" case studies as reported by Dr.'s and patients. Just because the science doesn't exist doesn't mean that it isn't possible. Given these are ANCIENT organisms relative to the evolution of the human species brain and that lyme came to the awareness of the medical and scientific field relatively recently - I think it is better for a person to err on the side of caution. If ya wanna kiss with someone who is lyme positive, that's your prerogative. I do kiss with my spouse, and he has lyme, but I no longer will have un-protected sex with him. He doesn't care about kissing me. We don't kiss that often, we are old farts, he is in denial about his lyme and we have agreed to disagree on this. When he dies I am going to ask for them to look for the lyme spirochete, ha ha ha! Sounds morbid... but I am going to ask. He's older than me.
Posted 12/8/2016 5:51 PM (GMT -5)
I'm on the fence about saliva transmitting it.

Even though it is found in saliva, doesn't mean it can be transmitted from person to person that way.
Posted 12/8/2016 6:00 PM (GMT -5)

Girlie said...
I'm on the fence about saliva transmitting it.

Even though it is found in saliva, doesn't mean it can be transmitted from person to person that way.

Right, and that's the part I'm so curious about. There's other bacteria and viruses that are present in certain fluids, however it needs a more direct route to the blood stream. It's why HIV isn't contagious through saliva unless there's a pathway straight to the blood like a cut.

I'm sure there's a logical scientific explanation, just have to read up on it.

Borrelia, may be in the category of it being transmissible through saliva, but it's a very flimsy route for the bacteria, not their strongest pathway, so if the persons immune system is optimal the defenses in our mucus lining, tears, and gut eradicate it pretty quickly before it can set up shop. But if it goes straight into the blood stream through a vector bite then it has bypassed these biological protective check points.

In may fall somewhere in this category. So it could happen but just not often enough for the numbers to be up there with herpes.
Posted 12/8/2016 6:32 PM (GMT -5)
Ticks bite people, the spirochete is in their saliva.
"When the tick bites its next vertebrate host, pathogens are transmitted via tick saliva."
Human saliva is not the same as tick saliva, and it would go down a human's digestive tract. But... interesting food for thought.
/www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4619117/
Posted 12/8/2016 7:27 PM (GMT -5)
I think its more about your body being open to lyme. many people get exposed to lyme and never get sick-many people get lyme and a couple weeks of antibiotics and they are good.
Just the exposure through a tick bite or saliva is not enough.

Dr Rau did a study on a thousand people who live in a forest region of Switzerland and found they all had been exposed to lyme and yet no of them were sick-there bodies had handled it. So his approach is to look for what makes his patients bodies open to sickness
Posted 12/8/2016 7:35 PM (GMT -5)

dacarte3 said...

Girlie said...
I'm on the fence about saliva transmitting it.

Even though it is found in saliva, doesn't mean it can be transmitted from person to person that way.

Right, and that's the part I'm so curious about. There's other bacteria and viruses that are present in certain fluids, however it needs a more direct route to the blood stream. It's why HIV isn't contagious through saliva unless there's a pathway straight to the blood like a cut.

I'm sure there's a logical scientific explanation, just have to read up on it.

Borrelia, may be in the category of it being transmissible through saliva, but it's a very flimsy route for the bacteria, not their strongest pathway, so if the persons immune system is optimal the defenses in our mucus lining, tears, and gut eradicate it pretty quickly before it can set up shop. But if it goes straight into the blood stream through a vector bite then it has bypassed these biological protective check points.

In may fall somewhere in this category. So it could happen but just not often enough for the numbers to be up there with herpes.

What about people with dental disease, open pockets around their teeth, clear routes to earlier dental cavitations that one might not even be aware of?


Decarte, if people are exposed to Lyme and they remain asymptomatic, it merely means their immune system is in good enough shape to keep it under control. Or they don't recognize the ache they have, or flu symptom, or forgetfulness might be related to that tick, if they knew they were even bit.

I guess time will tell.

Post Edited (julymorning) : 12/8/2016 5:43:32 PM (GMT-7)

Posted 12/8/2016 7:36 PM (GMT -5)
I had been bitten by ticks from as young as 2. But I think my Lyme got triggered at 17 by a string of events which included me nearly dying in a rafting trip in Peru and getting extremely sick from the water with a mysterious illness. I was never quite the same after that. I became very anemic, got mono, etc. also prior to that trip I got many vaccines and I think those are much harder on the body than surmised. We refuse all vaccinations in our family now after my kids had bad reactions and I finally put two and two together.
Posted 12/8/2016 7:36 PM (GMT -5)

magoo2 said...
I think its more about your body being open to lyme. many people get exposed to lyme and never get sick-many people get lyme and a couple weeks of antibiotics and they are good.
Just the exposure through a tick bite or saliva is not enough.

Dr Rau did a study on a thousand people who live in a forest region of Switzerland and found they all had been exposed to lyme and yet no of them were sick-there bodies had handled it. So his approach is to look for what makes his patients bodies open to sickness

Literally just came across that. I think it says a lot about our understanding of infectious disease. I feel that these are totally normal organisms to harbor and that way more goes into disease than simple encounter and transmission. Kinda like you can't sit on your deck in the summer in some places because you've created optimal conditions for mosquitos to grow by wiping out the natural ecosystems
Posted 12/9/2016 12:52 AM (GMT -5)
I will check my spit under the scope and report back ...the dentist i met uses cd to kill mouth ketes ..and sees it under phase contrast easily ...there is some interesting hive behavior on u toob and ketes in mouth (they attack in unison).
Honey ,propolis and herbs are healing my gums to a nice pink ...also doing micro taps with venom ...pretty sure my significant other has it already so we kiss
Posted 6/28/2017 4:46 AM (GMT -5)
I have not been able to post my old footage on my you toobs but any pathologist will say how can one differntiate differentiate tremonema denticola from borrelia without dna flouro scope .if you search dr nordquist he has fascinating phase contrast of mouth ketes and almost nothing kills em except honey and herbs . I also have changed my stance a believe 80%+ of the population has spirochetosis. They are just accepting of what ever bs diagnosis and treatments the broken establishment has for them .see the microscope thread on lymenet i believe lymed2010 has some vids up.

you bring up a interesting topic .i stopped sharing drinks and no longer kiss adoring fans . I wonder if dish soap even kills these things?
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