Question re: son and Tindazole/Tindamax

Black box warnings are 99.99999999999999999999999999999999 bull. I have been practicing as a PA-C for 35 years. never had a patient report a problem with one.

Huddie said...
One of the meds my son has been given is Tindazole. Along with Amoxy/Mino/Sepra.

I have concern that Tinda is a black box drug and told J. Clinic that I am not giving it to my son.

J. Clinic says that it is safe and it is the best cyst buster and that without it they cannot be certain of full healing.

Not trying to make this into an abx. argument but we all know that long term illness from pharmaceuticals don't show up for years.

Any thoughts on this?

I want to add that they have now been calling daily and have been very, very nice.

So your options are - you tell them...and see what they do
...or you say he's taking them...(and do what you want)


I won't take the fluoroquinolones because it is known that the issues have happened with those meds.

The Tinidazole - It's harder to determine that the Tinidazole caused someone's bladder cancer...BUT , the studies were done on Flagyl (not same med...just similar...same class) and it was in mice/rats. Usually with these studies they give them crazy amounts of the meds...not a dose for their small size...not a dose we'd be taking.

I totally understand your concerns, Huddie. Did you ask if you could substitute GSE instead? Maybe, just maybe they will accept that? (doubtful..but worth a try)

"A boxed warning, also commonly known as a black box warning, is issued when reasonable evidence suggests an association of a serious safety hazard with a drug product. A causal relationship does need to be established for a black box warning to appear on a drug’s labeling. A black box warning is issued if use of the drug may result in serious injury or death. Currently, more than 300 commercially available drug products have this type of warning. Several studies describing drugs with black box warnings have been published. The most common type of black box warning describes the use of the drug in specific high-risk patients.

Other black box warnings describe the potential for harm with use of specific doses or because of drug-drug interactions. The most common reason for issuance of a black box warning, or drug withdrawal from the market, for specific drug toxicity is hepatotoxicity."

www.healio.com/pediatrics/practice-management/news/print/infectious-diseases-in-children/%7B2f3d205a-694f-4ff0-9d60-56563e17f149%7D/the-meaning-behind-black-box-and-other-drug-warnings

Also, it's one thing to take the risks for ourselves...but it is different when you are giving these meds to your children.

Huddie said...
Thank you everyone.



I was told that "The pharmaceutical company would not give it to patients if it were harmful." I calmly reminded them of DES and tried not to go off on a rant regarding Big Pharma.


Thanks!

Well, that's just not true....I wish they'd at least be honest and acknowledge the risks of pharmas...but maintain that they feel it's required and that the benefits outweigh the risks...that I can accept.
Is she unaware of the Black Box Warning label that the FDA uses? geez

Girlie,

Thanks. I love what an activist you are.

Yes they acknowledged it is there but said it doesn't really mean anything that technically it should be on penicillin too. That is was only mice.

I have Nutribiotic GSE Ultra that my husband takes.

Do you know the best way to give it to him and WHEN I should add it in? Thanks.

It was awhile ago when I took the GSE - can't remember if it was empty or full stomach.


BTW - there was a bit of controversy on the GSE... (I know... )


Something about contamination in production.

If you do a search on this forum...you should get the information...it was a couple years ago I read it...maybe that has changed now.

Honestly, I think the risk of permanent damage from Lyme is much, much greater than the possibility of being harmed from tinidazole. I get that it's scary, but every medication your son takes carries some risk.

According to Dr. MR, rifampin and maybe plaquenil have ability to bust cysts.
[ulr]http://www.treatlyme.net/treat-lyme-book/lyme-disease-antibiotic-guide/

Hi huddie I think it should be okay, as the studies were done on flagyl not tinidazole and they are NOT the same drug just both cyst busters. Another nice thing about Tini is it kills all types of Lyme including biofilm that's probably why they really want him to take it. Also it's pulsed and he will prob rotate it to another one in a few months. So my opinion is to go ahead but it's your decision we will support you no matter what you decide. I understand your concern though, I would never take cipro or levaquin my tendons are already sensitive I don't need them rupturing. Also did they check his DNA for sulfur intolerance if you have one you shouldn't take septra

If he has a sulfur intolerance he will react to onions, garlic, Epsom salts. If I eat any of those in a medium amount or use Epsom salts I feel really bad after like a herx.

I'm not sure I've never done a mineral test before. :/

I'm okay! I met with my herbalist and she said I seem much better than two months ago! So that was good but I still get frustrated at how incremental and slow progress is and also I've been sleeping A LOT. Which I don't like but isn't awful obviously.

This is probably why they really want him to take it:

"Tigecycline and tinidazole treatment reduced both spirochetal and round body forms by ∼80%–90%. When quantitative effects on biofilm-like colonies were evaluated, the five antibiotics reduced formation of these colonies by only 30%–55%. In terms of qualitative effects, only tinidazole reduced viable organisms by ∼90%."

So the tinidazole is destroying the biofilm cysts etc 90% where the other abx like amoxicillin may be only impacting them 30%. That's a big difference. It is good to weigh the pros and cons, as mycoplasma can also cause cancer according to Buhner if left untreated for a very long time. So I would think the tinidazole should be okay, but maybe you can titrate ip the full dose slowly and make sure he switches to something else in four months. And if I were you I would be really hesistant in doing Capri or levaquin cause I've actually met a few lymies who did have tendon ruptures on it. TBH that's the only antibiotics that I've heard black box stuff coming true with. If I come up with a natural cyst buster I'll tell you lol. I know stevia kills biofilm. Not sure about cysts.

Lol blue still nowhere close to you 😝