Red sage side effects/herx?

Has anyone had side effects using Red Sage used for cytokine remodation? Also, do I also take Skullcap with that? I will start one at a time.

Patty

Summer,

I herxed really bad on Red Sage, but I herx on most things.

Do you have the bottle? You can muscle test yourself.

Stand barefoot with feet firmly on ground, shoulder with apart. Hold bottle in dominant hand, hold arm with bottle straight in front of you and ask if herb will be well tolerated by your body/help with Lyme.

Bring bottle to your chest and just stand quietly. If your body sways forward, it is good for you. If you sway backwards it is not good for you.

Trave taught me that (thanks Trav!), Dr. J. (the one who makes herbal tinctures) also swears by it. Give it a try.

BJD,

Thanks - meant to finish up with "we are all so different!"

Summer, I would try one drop and just see how it goes. I still wish I were one who can just down the herbs and get huge amounts into me, but I'm not.

Not trying to sell you on anything but I have switched to Jernigan herbs and can tolerate very well. I still herxed in the beginning but I could work around them - like they were in the background. Whereas I had other herxes where I was on the sofa all day. I think Jernigan is for more sensitive types.

Patty,

Hi. You can still herx from something that your body needs. Just go super slow and check in with the board each day.

If you are herxing the mods. will know when you should stop and detox more.

We have the gene thing too. My LLMD and my son's both said that it is only a real concern if it is double gene mutation (vs. single).

I had to go so slow. I have been trying to get up to full doses of different herbs since end of September.

Hang in there you will get there.

It is different for everyone.

A few people on here healed using their products. Deejavu is one of them, you may be able to search a link.

If you go on the Jernigan Herbal site you can read about each product. Dr. S. J (the same last name) can help you by email, if you give her symptoms. The main tincture is Borreglogen. I started with that one.

I've been using red sage and Chinese skullcap for a few weeks now, and have gotten up to 8 drops each and it's doing all I need it to at that dose so far.

Here's what red sage (also known as Dan Shen):
Modern pharmacological actions

1. It expands coronary artery, increases coronary blood flow, improves myocardial ischemia, promotes the recovery from myocardial ischemia or injury, and reduces myocardial infarct;
2. It improves hypoxia and protects hypoxic cardiomyocyte;
3. It improves microcirculation and promotes blood flow;
4. It dilates blood vessels and lowers blood pressure;
5. It improves blood rheology, reduces blood viscosity, inhibits platelet and coagulation function, activates the fibrinolysis, and resists the thrombosis;
6. It protects the red cell membrane, regulated blood lipids, and inhibits the formation of atherosclerotic plaque;
7. It protects the liver cell from damage and promotes the regeneration of liver cell, and resists the liver fibrosis;
8. It promotes the healing of broken bones and the skin incision;
9. It protects the gastric mucosa and fights against the ulcer;
10. It calms and eases the pain of the central nervous;
11. It improves renal function and protects the ischemic renal injury;
12. It fights inflammation and allergies;
13. It inhibits, at different levels, staphylococcus aureus, a variety of bacillus, some dermatophytes, leptospirosis, and so on.
www.chineseherbshealing.com/salvia-miltiorrhiza-dan-shen/

Dr. N. N. that wrote the forward to Buhner's 2nd edition of Healing Lyme wrote in his blog that he saw Buhner speak a while back. In that talk, one highlight was :

"Stephen emphasized that the “protocols” which are attributed to him are not, actually, how he works with those who come to him for help. In fact, a rigid adherence to any method of treatment would be antithetical to his way of thinking. He observed that “linear processes work well but don’t mesh with living systems.” He made it abundantly clear that reductionistic thinking will not enable us to move forward in our understanding of natural processes."

Interesting, kind of fits with how we each experience these herbs in our own unique way.
Here's the link of you're interested.
http://www.neilnathanmd.com/our-weekend-with-steven-buhner/

Traveler said...
Definitely, BJD -that's why there are so many options with Buhner's protocols. He understands that there is no "one size fits most" category with treatments. We not only have different presentations of the infections, different 'weak' areas, but also will respond differently to each of the herbs. So it's personalized by us, finding what works best for us and at what dose. Some need everything, and some need high doses, but that is not what everyone needs.

A bit of work for us, but that's why I believe it's so successful. It's individualized for each person.

Based on my reactions, it appears that tiny doses could work on cytokine and immune modulation. But, I'm having a hard time understanding how a drop or 2 could have any antimicrobial effect. Thoughts?

Traveler said...
Are you talking about using a single herb, or a combo of 2 or more at low doses?

Thanks Traveler, mostly combination formulas: a-bab and KW Lyme Formula. Both have numerous constituents. One drop and I'm wired /agitated within 10 minutes. I quit those as I just couldn't hack it.
I'm doing okay with the red sage it seems, but adding skullcap now has the same effect as a-bab, even at one drop. Ashwagandha pills have the same effect but takes a few hours to manifest. I don't understand how that tiny amount could kill microbes in the blood or tissue that quickly, at that small amount, release the Neurotoxins and cause a herx in 10 minutes. Unless the bugs are in my stomach lining, but even still, doxycycline and artemesinin didn't cause herx at all. Arrrrrrrrgh!

I agree, BJD55. The smallest doses bring on herxes.

I had to lower my JK dose after getting to 3 drps 3x daily due to difficulty with breathing. I switched to Stephania and now up to 2 drops in the morning and afternoon and 1 drop later in the day. It took me 11 days to get to this dose. Should I stay at this dose or back down due to very uncomfortable herxing ( anxiety, depression, agitation and poor sleep and extreme blurred vision). I am also up to 6 drops 3x daily of Hawhorne. And 8 drops 3x daily of Tox-Ease. When should I add in cat's claw or Skullcap? Or should I add in the Red Sage first since it has such good benefits or should I wait until this herx ends?

I also have on hand Kudzu ( have extreme brain fog), Red Reishi mushroom Ashwagandah.

I do detox ( lemon water, parsley, burbur, pinella, glutithione, alka seltzer gold, milk thistle, occasional dry brushing, chlorella and activated charcoal). How ofte and how many capsules of the activated charcoal do you guys take? I take 1 or 2 capsules every night.

Patty

Yes, they can and do live in the intestinal lining, as well as the stomach lining.

We also need to keep the bowels moving due to possible re-absorption of toxins.


Patty, have you had the MTHFR testing done to see if you have genetic issues that prevent your body from detoxing well? Don't allow yourself to continue to herx - you either need to increase your detoxing or lower the amount of whatever it is that's causing the herx. If you aren't sure, you can back down on all of them, and then slowly raise them one at a time until you identify which one(s) are causing you to herx.

Have you been able to add in any supplements to help your body make those "connections" - we do have some members that really understand the gene mutations (I'm NOT one of them! LOL!), that would likely be willing to help you understand what you can take that might help - but you likely need to start a new thread about that specifically.

Getting your body to detox well may be your answer!