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Posted 7/16/2017 10:10 PM (GMT -5)
Buhner highly recommends Shiitake Mushrooms for the symptom of wasting/collagen loss.

Has anyone had success with consuming them (consistently I would imagine) and having noticeable results?

And is it better than other alternatives like just eating a lot of protein and/or taking protein/collagen supps?

Is it really some wonder mushroom that does it more effectively than the other options I listed?
Posted 7/17/2017 9:57 AM (GMT -5)
Sorry - I don't do mushrooms anymore - hopefully others can help

bump
Posted 7/17/2017 10:38 AM (GMT -5)
When I was treating lyme I did so many things. I also did mushrooms. First of all, I love to eat them. I find that dirt taste of the portobellos taste a lot like my sister's mud pies. LOL! Okay, I will quit joking around. But they do have an earthy taste that I assume is acquired.

Most of my mushrooms are incorporated into my dishes or they are slathered with a sauce. This is a chore and especially for someone with lyme brain. So I opted for pills. Good grief another pill to add to that handful I took daily.

This is the one I took - hostdefense.com/mycommunity

I ran out one day (which lasted for about 2 weeks) and I did not notice much difference in my health at all. When I did order I was so sick of pills that I went for Tonic of Emperors. It just sounded so regal.

I got this one - /www.hawaiipharm.com/reishi-alc-extract. Only to find that the "tonic" only has one ingredient. Lessen learned, read the ingredient label Grandma!

Bottom line FOR ME, is I eat mushrooms in my cooking maybe 3 times a month. I don't do pills or tinctures and I feel fine. I never really noticed a plus or a negative when taking or not taking.

I think you will have to do your own experiment on this one.
Posted 7/17/2017 3:50 PM (GMT -5)
Thank you PeteZa for your feed back. However it didn't quite directly hit my question.

Buhner often states in multiple books, for wasting and collagen loss symptoms "I got just the thing for you". And he always list like three different things he highly recommends. And one of them is always Shiitake Mushrooms.

I hope he is right and I want to believe him, but.......it just sounds weird.

So right now as some of you all may know is I'm experiencing wasting (again), this time is in my lower arm and wrist. And like over night I just started wasting on the posterior. It feels bony to sit down. ALS-like symptoms are hitting hard.

So outside of treating my lyme and mycoplasma infection, to treat the "wasting" symptom I should just eat Shiitake Mushrooms everyday and it will noticeably improve the symptom?

It just seems odd. And with my long experiences with lyme just sounds too easy. Nothing is that easy with Lyme.
Posted 7/17/2017 4:36 PM (GMT -5)
dacarte3,
You might already be aware of these but just in case your not, for restoring/rebuilding collagen:

Eat foods that contain the amino acids lysine and proline. Natural collagen contains large quantities of these two amino acids; consuming foods high in them can help to replenish your body's supply. Lysine can be found in lean meats, fish and low-fat dairy while egg whites and wheat germ are good sources of proline.

Take a vitamin C supplement on a daily basis. Vitamin C is required to transform the lysine and proline into hydroxylysine and hydroxyproline, the forms of the amino acids necessary to rebuild collagen.

Increase the amount of protein you consume in your diet. Women should consume 46 grams of protein a day, while men should consume 56 grams per day. Protein supports the growth and health of collagen.

Take a 10mg vitamin E supplement daily. Vitamin E is essential to collagen rebuilding by providing the supporting nutrients required for your body to produce collagen.
Note:Buhner says take 400-800IU daily

Taken from livestrong

Buhner has a whole collagen support protocol on P217 of 2nd edition. If you dont have book I can post it .

I havent read about the shiitake mushroom yet, orry.
Take care, Jo

Take care, Jo
Posted 7/17/2017 4:51 PM (GMT -5)
I found this from Stephen Buhner : this person has muscle wasting and other issues but I was able to pick out the muscle wasting part.

He suggested woodland essence "Muscle Tone formula"

http://buhnerhealinglyme.com/herbs/stephania-and-beta-blockers/

Not familiar with it but something to check out for muscle wasting.
Posted 7/17/2017 4:58 PM (GMT -5)
I had been taking Lion's Mane, and then it was one that I recently stopped because I erroneously thought it was supposed to be taking with food, which it isn't, and my eating habits were so random and often not even here at home I forgot about the supplements.

I expect that this is something we take to prevent further damage, and then once we have the destroying organisms out of the way, we can continue to rebuild what was lost.

I have no expectations that these repair supplements will reverse anything until the infections are under control.

ETA: the disease organisms are eating/destroying these parts of us to survive. When we eat foods or take supplements to help what we've lost, we can really only replace what's being taken away.

Much like a mother takes supplements to replace what she loses in nourishing(nursing) her baby.
I would think we'd be having to consume bucket loads in order to replace AND rebuild, unless a person was taking the supplements before the damage was begun. Or course depending on how long the damage had been going on.

Am I making any sense?

Post Edited (julymorning) : 7/17/2017 4:03:32 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 7/17/2017 6:16 PM (GMT -5)

goshawk said...
dacarte3,
You might already be aware of these but just in case your not, for restoring/rebuilding collagen:

Eat foods that contain the amino acids lysine and proline. Natural collagen contains large quantities of these two amino acids; consuming foods high in them can help to replenish your body's supply. Lysine can be found in lean meats, fish and low-fat dairy while egg whites and wheat germ are good sources of proline.

Take a vitamin C supplement on a daily basis. Vitamin C is required to transform the lysine and proline into hydroxylysine and hydroxyproline, the forms of the amino acids necessary to rebuild collagen.

Increase the amount of protein you consume in your diet. Women should consume 46 grams of protein a day, while men should consume 56 grams per day. Protein supports the growth and health of collagen.

Take a 10mg vitamin E supplement daily. Vitamin E is essential to collagen rebuilding by providing the supporting nutrients required for your body to produce collagen.
Note:Buhner says take 400-800IU daily

Taken from livestrong

Buhner has a whole collagen support protocol on P217 of 2nd edition. If you dont have book I can post it .

I havent read about the shiitake mushroom yet, orry.
Take care, Jo

Take care, Jo

Thank you for your input.

I definitely eat way more than 50 grams of protein a day. On average I eat 100-120gms a day.

My problem is (besides lyme) is I don't enough "calories" a day I believe. I eat a mostly paleo diet. A small breakfast (which is basically a snack), a moderate size lunch, and a large dinner.

So I went out and bought a sugar free, 1250 calorie 50g protein supplement from Vitamin Shoppe. Great reviews. Everyone was saying they gained 10-15 lbs anywhere from 2-6 weeks. But that's non-lyme people so I will absolutely welcome a fraction of those results.
Posted 7/17/2017 6:25 PM (GMT -5)

julymorning said...

ETA: the disease organisms are eating/destroying these parts of us to survive. When we eat foods or take supplements to help what we've lost, we can really only replace what's being taken away.

Much like a mother takes supplements to replace what she loses in nourishing(nursing) her baby.
I would think we'd be having to consume bucket loads in order to replace AND rebuild, unless a person was taking the supplements before the damage was begun. Or course depending on how long the damage had been going on.

Am I making any sense?

That does make sense. And I'm right there with you on your logic.

Which is way I want to consume a ridiculous amount of calories per day. At the moment my lyme and mycoplasma is scavenging "X" amount. If I can consume X amount times 2 or 3 maybe I can get ahead of it.

So with the supplement I just bought, twice a day is 100g of protein, 2500 calories. Plus another 2000 calories and additional 50g+ of protein from actual food (I'm 5'7).

If this (plus treatment) doesn't yield positive results over the course of several weeks, then I'm out of good ideas.
Posted 7/17/2017 10:03 PM (GMT -5)
Lyme loves to eat our collagen.

I take Protein Essentials Hydrolyzed Collagen and so does my husband. It mixes in anything and both of us start our day off with a cup of coffee and that is what is in it.
Posted 7/17/2017 10:03 PM (GMT -5)
Well....I've done a bit of reading. I tried to avoid sites that had supplements to sell because naturally they're geared towards the ingredients in their product, skirting the scientific evidence. I especially had to make sure my search did not have the word "Lyme" in it, because it of course led to less than scientific evidence, unfortunately. Although maybe if I had dug through a few more pages I would have found what I was looking for.

So these articles are geared towards the general public, although one does mention some "auto immune" disorders, Lyme is not mentioned.

These first two links were maybe more for me to distinguish where collagen connective tissue differs from cartilage, which is something someone with extended damage usually ends up dealing with surgically, and so of course my idea was to stop that deteriorating process or reverse it without ending up under the knife.

The 3rd one deals with rebuilding and the last link is the bottom line, I believe.

www.livestrong.com/article/337020-collagen-vs-cartilage/
lifesci.dls.rutgers.edu/~babiarz/DCTtx.htm

www.painandinjurydoctor.com/nutrition/can-you-grow-cartilage-by-eating-certain-foods-or-supplements/

sock-doc.com/joint-tissue-repair-gags/

Pay particular attention to the article that discusses the difficulty of supplements or dietary means actually getting to the areas that actually need repair, instead of going to our hair or fingernails.

Ooops, I had to add the hyper links.

Post Edited (julymorning) : 7/17/2017 9:08:24 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 7/17/2017 10:19 PM (GMT -5)

julymorning said...
Well....I've done a bit of reading. I tried to avoid sites that had supplements to sell because naturally they're geared towards the ingredients in their product, skirting the scientific evidence. I especially had to make sure my search did not have the word "Lyme" in it, because it of course led to less than scientific evidence, unfortunately. Although maybe if I had dug through a few more pages I would have found what I was looking for.

So these articles are geared towards the general public, although one does mention some "auto immune" disorders, Lyme is not mentioned.

These first two links were maybe more for me to distinguish where collagen connective tissue differs from cartilage, which is something someone with extended damage usually ends up dealing with surgically, and so of course my idea was to stop that deteriorating process or reverse it without ending up under the knife.

The 3rd one deals with rebuilding and the last link is the bottom line, I believe.

www.livestrong.com/article/337020-collagen-vs-cartilage/
lifesci.dls.rutgers.edu/~babiarz/DCTtx.htm

www.painandinjurydoctor.com/nutrition/can-you-grow-cartilage-by-eating-certain-foods-or-supplements/

sock-doc.com/joint-tissue-repair-gags/

Pay particular attention to the article that discusses the difficulty of supplements or dietary means actually getting to the areas that actually need repair, instead of going to our hair or fingernails.

Ooops, I had to add the hyper links.

Great articles. I believe it 100%. The past year of taking collagen supps, glucosamine, glutimine, etc is improvement in hair and nails and maybe skin. But not actual collagen replacement/repair.

So my game plan is to just pack on the pounds. Consuming 4500+ calories per day, 150+ gm of protein. Every fat kids dream.
Posted 7/17/2017 10:25 PM (GMT -5)
LOL, I wish I could send you some calories. I'm trying to get the weight back off that I've gained since my relapse in 2014, and have been griping about it taking a 3500 calorie deficit to lose just one pound.

My very first area of(connective tissue) loss was immediately after my initial infection 33 years ago, and it was my chest/collarbone area.
How in the heck can I 'exercise' my chest to encourage blood flow(with nutrients) to that area for repair?
Posted 7/18/2017 5:01 AM (GMT -5)
The few things that stopped the muscle wasting was hd bart and parasite treatment and bvt .the two best rebuild things has been highdose biotin(ms users)and royal jelly(has high levels of aceytcholine)

Bvt stopped the collerbone,knee and elbow popping grinding in 6 months ...my spine may take longer but best its been in a long while

july- venex makes a bv cream that instantly increases bloodflow whereever applied ...allergy considered its a good test though if no hives usually good 2 go.. i have been using full stings on my sternum with great success

Post Edited (bluelyme) : 7/18/2017 4:06:31 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 7/18/2017 9:37 AM (GMT -5)

julymorning said...
LOL, I wish I could send you some calories. I'm trying to get the weight back off that I've gained since my relapse in 2014, and have been griping about it taking a 3500 calorie deficit to lose just one pound.

My very first area of(connective tissue) loss was immediately after my initial infection 33 years ago, and it was my chest/collarbone area.
How in the heck can I 'exercise' my chest to encourage blood flow(with nutrients) to that area for repair?

Yes i have experienced some in my collar area as well but not too bad.

Interesting how some lymies waste and others gain. I wish i had the gain issue.

Its actually "easier" (for me) to eat less and exercise. Constantly stuffing your stomach all day long is actually not as fun as it seems.
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